Irish Taxi Council, They Haven’t Gone Away.
Roy November 9th, 2009
I spoke at length with Frank Byrne, president of the Irish Taxi Council on Friday evening, and he assured me that the Irish Taxi Council have not gone away and have been very busy in the background making important contacts.
He said that decisions regarding the circulation of information must be made centrally and thought must be given to as and how that information is used, a newsletter will be forthcoming later informing it’s members on the current state of play.
He did mention that members of the Irish Taxi Council attended the Transport Committee meeting last Wednesday at Dail Eireann, where The Taxi Regulator Mrs Kathleen Doyle was questioned closely by Frank Fahey Td and Tommy Broughan Td and many of their worries were addressed.
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- Comments(16)
They were in the public gallery cheering on Tommy Gorman’s team.
Did they update you on their meeting with CTR the previous week?
Stephen that is a very childish response and not worthy of you.
@anonymous.
On the contrary it is a factual account of the facts. Mr. Fahey reported that he had not met Frank Byrne as at 17 Sept and subsequently confirmed same to a delegation of drivers/drivers spouses.
ITC had no hand act or part in the OJTC recommendations. Despite my pointing out to their President, among others, that the recommendations represent the only chance of real progress in our industry they chose to ignore same.
Now that the penny has finally dropped they are desperately clinging to Tommy Gorman’s coattails.
Stephen we get it. You have no time for ITC. Your choice. As you obviously only have 3rd hand information on what is happening re meetings etc that the ITC may or may not be having since 02nd October maybe you should limit your comments to what you personally know as opposed to spouting rank talk and propaganda.
Yet again a comment re Tommy Gorman. Tut Tut childish and beneath your alleged intelligence level
@Anonymous.
My comments, as always, are limited to facts. You are correct, I don’t believe ITCs continuation as a fringe organisation is of any benefit to drivers. Here’s a quote from Frank Byrne from the night before the protest “If they don’t turn up they’re not representing”. He made similar comments at the conference of 22 Sept. He was right. There is no point to representing drivers that don’t want to be represented.
The extent to which Mr. Byrne is to blame is limited. The country associations led him up the garden path with claims to represent thousands of drivers. The committee were non existent throughout the protest. The “victory” was nothing more than a face saving exercise.
The concept started by TDFC was a good one. The “sales” job by ITC was a good one (Double jobbers out, Foreign Nationals out, We hate KD…). If you can’t attract support with this propaganda, you can’t attract support period.
What ITC (and TDFC) always lacked is the skills to translate the popular sound bites into real policy and the skills to negotiate or otherwise further drivers interests. Essentially they got stuck on the popular.
We all know that they are only clinging to Mr. Gorman’s coattails now because Tommy’s buddy, Mr. Fahey, is taking a cheap political shot at one of the popular hate figures.
Stephen just to clarify things and possibly correct 1 comment.
ITC have met with Deputy Fahey and several others on the JOC for transport and have been openly praised for their contribution in trying to find workable and economically viable solutions to the current problems.
Tommy Gorman’s coat tails are irrelevant. If by chance all end up on the same page then all the better. I have certainly informed Deputy Fahey that I am not a supporter of Mr. Gorman. Comments of this nature are cheap jibes. While others have learned from past mistakes and now refrain from such comments you unfortunately seem to be regressing. In the past you disapproved of such activity yourself.
If Deputy Fahey is indeed showboating to an extent then that is a by product of what ITC, other representative bodies and individual drivers have started not the main point.
While the incumbent occupant in charge at no 35 is as you state the public hate figure of the moment, that is because she is quite happy to stay between the lines and not adopt a creative approach to the situation (not in my remit as an excuse is not acceptable to anybody anymore). This of course could be because she has been told by the boss not to, but if you take the kings shilling and you do the kings bidding then the associated fall out is part of the job.
To say that the committee were not present during the protest is incorrect.
Taking into account the length of time that ITC has been in existence and the steep learning curve involved I feel that their contribution to date has been extremely productive.
While I appreciate that you are no longer involved and respect your decision not to be you have to concede that if you are not privy to the current information ie that post Oct 02nd it is unfair to comment. It would be like ITC commenting on SIPTU committee activity which is for the most part not made public
@Anonymous.
I report facts. If you wish to challenge them with something of substance do so. If I’m told something in confidence it remains in confidence as I suspect you may know.
Don’t forget communication, or lack thereof, was one of TDFCs main complaints against the mainstream representative bodies. ITC have “progressed” a long way from it’s idealistic beginnings.
I support all efforts being made. By point of fact Frank Byrne has made a considerable personal effort on taxi drivers behalf for which I am grateful. Part (and only part) of the problem is that the effort is too “personal” on every level. The main problem, however, is that drivers aren’t interested. Unfortunately, there’s nothing you or I or Frank can do about that.
Stephen while I would agree that apathy is rife and that there are a sizable number within the industry who want somebody else to do the work while they reap the benefits I don’t surround myself with those people and don’t allow that attitude to affect what I do.
I like the personal approach of Mr. Byrne and his colleagues though I do appreciate that this approach would not suit all.
Each meeting that is attended be it by an individual or a representative group (whomever that may be) where the dire current situation is explained and possible solutions put forward for discussion is a positive move be it personalized or not.
We do after all live in a democracy and nobody wants supporters/members who are there just because they always have been. So we carry on in hopes of making even a small change.
“Each meeting that is attended be it by an individual or a representative group (whomever that may be) where the dire current situation is explained and possible solutions put forward for discussion is a positive move be it personalized or not.”
ITC have proved through publication of minutes of meetings that they don’t have the skills to negotiate. In recent times they have proved that they are not even capable of making it past the security desk.
“If by chance all end up on the same page then all the better.”
You sum the situation up very well in this quote. TDFC started with the intent of offering something different – communication, no vested interests, etc. – If ITC have nothing different to offer there is no point to their continuation as a fringe organisation. This point is reinforced by TDFCs parting advice to it’s supporters: join “which ever union they believe represents them best”.
Stephen your opinion is obviously driven by dislike and is not in any way objective.
Your information must either be currently provided by a malicious detractor or a a well meaning supporter who is not in possession of all of the facts.
ITC like any organization learns as it grows. If not it becomes a dinosaur and ineffective.
ITC has made mistakes. That is without doubt but I do take offense at your statement that they lack negotiation skills.
Their recent meetings have been extremely fruitful and several mentions of their contributions to finding a solution to the current mess at the JOC are a testament to this
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=TRJ20091104.xml&Page=1&Ex=H2#H2
TDFC were a lobby group. It had supporters from right across the wide spectrum within the industry many of whom were affiliated to various different representative organizations and some to none. It would in my opinion have been disingenuous to all of those involved and insulting to some if TDFC had done anything else other than make an open statement.
Roy,
Clarification is needed on a few things that have been mentioned in recent threads:
1.The ITC have not issued any newsletter to date. The delay has been due to the awaiting of results of our meeting with the Commission for Taxi Regulation. We are now working as fast as we can to put this newsletter together as we are well aware of the appetite for knowledge for the future within the industry as opposed to the TDFC’s type of newsletters this will be National information sheet and will be far more comprehensive. The newsletter that one of your contributers has posted on the forum is not accurate or reflective of the opinion of the ITC in any way as it was a consultative document beginning at the hard edge meant only for the eyes of the executive council while we got our combined opinion agreed, I do not wish to ask you to take it down as even the “leeked” documents should be shown. That doesn’t mean we are hiding information. We wish to be as open and informative as TDFC were but we live in delicate times and we wish to ensure that whatever we publish is accurate as the the decisions that are impending will have grave consequences for our industry.
2. The impending proposals of the CTR are well published and discussed on your site so I won’t go into them here except to say that I hope everyone has read them and understands what they mean to them.
3. I find it perplexing that members of the forum have decided post haste that the ITC has become one of their pet hates. Comparible to the examples of the mistakes gone by! ie NTDU, NPHTA etc. I faced an election process on july 21st of this year, when did any other representative body do so? Also the executive of the ITC faced an election process and to this date we have not asked for or recieved one penny in remuneration. We will not be seeking to sell insurance policies or to complete tax returns-ever. I am upset to think that we would be percieved as being here to represent the business interest of our industry compared to the far more important job of trying to recover our jobs on behalf of the full time taxi drivers of Ireland. The ITC have no ambition to replace the NTDU or any other body other than to say we feel let down and railroaded by these people to the extent that we felt it necessary to try to retake control of OUR industry.
We are trying to be democratic and open but this is hard to achieve when you consider the industry has more than 20,000 licensed taxi’s and 47,000 licensed drivers and are being challenged on every front.
Information is only useful if it helps you and right now all information aids those that wish to get their way against full time taxi drivers in the industry so we must be careful how we use it.
4. I am very aware that the majority of people watching this site have NO interest in the betterment of the working lives of the majority of full time taxi drivers and the ITC says to you;
We have fround you out and eventually the Public will find you out, can you deal with the consequences??
5. The finer details of the ITC’s understanding of coming reforms will be published here in the next 2 days,
but if you need more Roy , give me a call,
Regards and thank you,
Frank Byrne,
President,
Irish Taxi Council.
statement:
The ITC represent full time taxi drivers ONLY! Thats it! Everyone else has tried to make money from us..
We have none whatsoever! If you wish to survive in this awful situation then talk to us.
085 7652277
@Frank Byrne.
Them there “leeked” documents were leAked on the website of ACTD which is ITCs only Dublin affiliate and was promoted on Roy’s forum as ITCs preferred method for Dublin members to subscribe to ITC.
One would assume the executive committee you refer to is composed of ITCs “best drivers”, the same drivers ITC itself concludes will struggle with a simple test on industry rules and regulations. You should be grateful to whichever executive leaked the document, making it available to a forum which attracts literate contributors.
Having previously drafted a document for ITC I can assure anyone reading that this is pure bullshit. ITC don’t do consultation………pull the other one mate, it’s got bells on!
Hate is your job…Those of us with an interest in solutions deal in logic.
Democracy? Has ITC altered it’s constitution?
You yourself were elected as President in dubious circumstances. You stood as representative of TDFC (who later advised members to join “which ever union…”). It was then discovered that TDFC, under ITCs constitution, were not entitled to delegate status, never mind presidential status….enter ACTD!
Regards,
Stephen O’Connell.
i’am astrounded by by hypocrasy by tdfc and now itc they continue to state they represent full-time taxi-drivers only, ? complete and utter nonsense, while they continue to co’habit with others i.e unions organisations/ federations, , who constantly recruit part/ timers non-nationals with no proper backround criteria etc ? should you for any any reason be in doubt ? ask their represenatives to supply you with proof of their full time members they cant ? money for recruitment is their god ? no matter from whom ? even the infamous kathleen doyle cant supply the amount of full-time taxi -drivers from her commissions national register ? check it yourself’s. and you continue to wonder why diverseity will never be conquered in our industry, how can it when it’s the patients who are running the asylum ? one final point in 2007 there were approx 1′500 taxi’s today 2009= aprox 28′000 almost double ? what has been achived ? a large fleet increase ? predicton for 2012 approx 30′000 taxi’s why ? becasuse whether w/a taxi’s or not they are still taxi.s ? and kathleen doyle has reserved the right to re-issue standard taxi licenses if she cant sell enough w/a plates ? you can fool some of the people some of the time but you can fool the taxi people all of the time ? and they have been doing so since 2000. look at the facts and statistics ? the damage is done and irreverseable they cant put humpty together again ?
All drivers who bought toyota vans for wheelchair licences will not qualify in this category from 2012 and will have to buy an ordinary licence from Cathleen, or preferably,somebody leaving the industry.
Deregulation/re-regulation/new regulation, gone crazy.Meanwhile the drivers suffer, and suicides will continue as the recession deepens and part time retires prison officers and other civil servants on huge pensions emerge nightly to cream off the crumbs that might provide bread on the table for full time drivers.
Dempsey/Fahy/Fianna Fail-gangsters one and all.!
@tirnanog33. It’s unlikely that CTR will be issuing saloon plates in 2012. Naturally, saloon licences will be subject to the 9 year rule and the 3 year rule.