Bord Failte/NTA Service Excellence program.

I attended the course this afternoon in the Conrad Hotel, it was professionally presented, very interesting and should be of value to all who attended.
It consisted of interactive elements, with drivers discussing amongst each other what they believed defined good service, then these points were expanded upon by the presentation team.
I came away with some new ideas for improving the service I give to customers.
It’s just a shame that those most in need of the ideas and help given during the session are the very ones that wouldn’t bother going.

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582 thoughts on “Bord Failte/NTA Service Excellence program.

  1. john m

    Have you read the Failte Ireland website .Does it mention taxies or the nice sticker you get if you complete this course .Its stickertastic for business .

  2. Roy Post author

    The presentation is designed to help you grow your own business, to think about how you can obtain repeat business by offering a standard of service people will wish to have again, you seem to want others to hand it to you, simply because you happened to attend.

  3. Frank

    I bet the salesman was paid a lot more than you for the day.If one doesn’t know all the tricks of the trade by now you shouldn’t be in the business.

  4. chester

    Its a scam Roy, someone is making money from it and its not the taxi drivers BF or the NTA looking for ways to get their hands on our money you can have lots of nice fancy certs stuck all over your car and it still won’t make a blind bit of difference to the passenger all they want is for you to bring them from A to B and what happens in between is forgotten as soon as they pay you and shut the door behind them.

  5. Frank

    Next thing, they’ll ask you to leave your baseball bats, Mag lites, tazers, pepper spray at home, the customer is always right etc.

  6. sidewinder

    well roy u went as a taxi driver into a bunch of suits and they told you how to be a better taxi driver and you think thats great,u defend everything the nta propose and never critise! i think ur great i wish i had ur outlook,how long are u driving,u must have no kids and no mortage because ur the most optimist cabbie on the net.

  7. sclass

    Chester you are spot on in what you say .In the good days I had a number of good clientele big rippers
    But when the tiger went belly up they where the ones who lost most .
    If you want to build up your own private clientele you must be on call 24/7. Been there done that. It’s not physically possible. I dont waste money on cards anymore if you want my number .” Ok would you like to put it into your phone.
    Their you go.” Thanks.
    Now you must sleep with that phone and your health sufferers.
    There is to much choice for punters now. You can open you front door and more likely hail a taxi now.
    The game is getting worse the Friday night’s I cannot believe are so bad . Board Failte won’t help what did they do about deregulation.
    Do they really believe tourists want African driving them around. No is the answer.From personal experience.

  8. sclass

    A few months ago I picked up four US tourists,the guy sitting beside me asked.” What’s going on in Dublin with all the Africans driving taxis
    I didn’t come to Ireland to see that
    I came to Ireland to speak to drivers like you . Who know where they are going and know about their country.when I go to Africa I would expect an African driver. This American tourist had a very strong opinion on the Taxi situation in Ireland. Does Board Failte know or take this situation into consideration.No thy don’t just turn a blind eye like the NTA do.

  9. Paudie

    american tourists want irish drivers, who know about irish culture. and who know their way around ireland without satnavs.

  10. ger

    This is a result of a failed immigration policy. of the irish born child law. thats the reason thousands of nigerians came here, and a stupid welfare system that has handed over BILLIONS of euro to them. thats how they can afford to send 430 MILLION back to nigeria every year. we have to be the most stupid nation on the planet. these people dont care about this country, all they care about is how much money they can suck out of the system. and thats a fact.

  11. Paudie

    correct ger welfare state welcomes imports, and hands them a fortune. nothing but austerity for Irish people. and what amazes me is how Irish people tolerate this crap. yes we are fools.

  12. bohemian boy

    this bleedin immigration council of ireland are up in arms because this crowd of imports are not getting citizenship quickly enough.the cheek of this fukkin shower of do gooders

  13. bohemian boy

    sunday will be interesting,dublin bus say they will introduce the cost cutting measures despite no agreement from the unions.hopefully this will result in a strike and the public will become dependent on us. if the nta decide to assist dublin bus with OUR money to get over their present crises,i sincerely hope the taxi rep bodies will not be found wanting in protest at such an outrage .

  14. sclass

    Bo I agree with you all the way .Again ill ask who will protest . Taxi drivers will just take it up the A$$.They Dont have the stomach for protesting .immigrants taking over our livelihood no credible vetting no enforcement.Is that alone not enough to protest.even just to let Kelly know how urgent it is for him and the NTA to push the bill through . We are the ones should be calling the shots. Instead we are sliding into the feedlot head first. Taxi protest what will it take for it to happen?????.

  15. Fred

    I did the initial course before xmas. Its a con. Most of the ideas a child would laugh at. Why are these guys wasting OUR money on such nonsense. Top quality customer service and offering same comes from a persons calibre as a human being. It is not learned in a class room. How can drivers offer the standards they suggest when 1) we are working 70+ hours pw 2) people want discounts regardless of the quality offered. I provide a beautiful car and regularly get complemented for it but still they take the discount and do not give a tip. A lot of irish people dont appreciate quality!the money wasted on this nonsense would be better spent on enforcement. Then we could make money, we would be less tired,stressed, worried and we could invest!!! Better for customers and drivers!

  16. Fred

    The best thing about the course i did pre xmas was the chance to get in the face of kelly at the sticker presentation. He wasnt so fond of being told the NTA are muppets. He did however promise rigorous enforcement was only a matter of time away. He is a nice guy and talks well but the pace of change is painfully slow! 5 new enforcers started two weeks ago apparently, still havent seen one of them. Are there KPI’s in place for these people i wonder?

  17. Paudie

    Kelly has done nothing for the taxi industry, its still infested with illegal immigrants. he is just a mouthpiece. there will be no changes while he is there. what will his door stickers solve.

  18. sclass

    @Fred did you comment on the course sa to driving cannot be though in a classroom. Every fare is a different experience day work is totally different than night work because at night your dealing with drink and drugs . While 90% of fares are fine the 10% of nut jobs haggling over the fare or Dont have the full fare.Do they teach you how to deal with that situation I dont think so .

  19. chester

    Jesus Roy what have you allowed happen to your web site ? too many advertisers plugging their own sites…incognito eg ‘great site do have a look at my site’ or ‘I just stumbled across this site and found it very useful blah blah blah if it continues then your site will become infested with bloggers and unreadable for the rest of us who use this site instead of facebook.

  20. Paudie

    people who feel they need courses like that are amateurs, not business people. go get a factory job, thats where you belong. you are not suitable to be self employed.

  21. Jake

    “american tourists want irish drivers, who know about irish culture. and who know their way around ireland without satnavs.”

    Actually, many Americans prefer the taxi driver to focus on driving rather than intruding into their thoughts or conversations, but will politely avoid asking the driver to cease being offensively talkative. Irish drivers show no evidence of knowing the way in Dublin, and not even the sense to use satnav.

  22. flybynite

    Funny I just had a group of Americans. A coach driver called to take over, his wife was not well and needed him at home. they were on a tour of Ireland. I drove them around the West and South of the country. They did not seem interested in anything. The guide was a student of history, very well up with all matters Irish and she could not figure them out. She had been with them for a week and wondered why they had come here at all.
    Had something to do with the gathering, so I understood. I was not with them from the beginning, so I do not know much about them. And they were very aloof. Behaved as if they would have preferred to be somewhere else.
    This does not tally with other entries here: They could not give a rat’s bottom about Africans working here. When we had a visit to an old abbey I heard them moan: “Oh no. Not another bunch of ruins”. They wanted to see technology. Why come to Ireland for that? Most of what we have is a spin-off from the USA. Silicon Valley is where they should have gone !
    Poor tippers they were, too.

  23. sclass

    African cabbie ,sorry Jake, Some of us know from experience when to or when not to speak or engage in conversation. There are times it suits me not to . Also can you believe I can drive while in deep conversation in English that English speakers understand.

  24. bohemian boy

    how do you rate tippers
    heres my take on it
    worst english
    americans tip but very small
    former eastern block countries
    poland russia’etc etc no tips at all
    irish chulchies no tip at all
    winners by a country mile are
    they give out to you if you go
    to give them there change
    you chulchies,and foreigners
    could take lessons from the dubs

  25. ger

    Them skunks from eastern europe are the meanest bastards in the world. they would’nt give u a cent. i find the best tippers are the english. i work out of the airport a lot and they nearly always tip. the yanks can be ok, but some of them give you nothing. as for the irish, the best tippers are the working class dubs, the people who can least afford it! the tosspots that live in the big house out in foxrock give you nothing while the decent dub living in a council house nearly always gives a few euro. the worst are the drunken boggers who look for a discount and tell you that the 15 euro fare is only 8 euro down the bog! And then they want to know why there is “extras” on the meter, “thats never on the meter down home” i say to the thick fookers ” i dont care what you pay down home, pony up the fare now and a tip would be nice”. Fookin tight ass muck savages. Rant over.

  26. bohemian boy

    ger i agree on most things you have said,however i found the ENGLISH to be the tightest fookers of for the foxrock crowd,they love to pay in coins,which to some extent reflects what they think of taxi drivers,the snooby baskets.yes the dubs are out on their own when it comes to tipping

  27. Frank

    I build in my own tip, the punter feels better when I refuse a tip saying “c’mon there’s a recession, we’re all in this together, get me again when ya have it” 🙂

  28. flybynite

    Bus strike, busy busy busy but not everyone is happy. Grumpy customers who did not plan to fork out money for a taxi. Had one who accused me of “trying to rip him off” because I did not have the last 5 cents change ready that he was due. I had a dig for my last few loose cents and 2 cent pieces and he held out his hand for the very last cent !
    On the news a few young guys lost their lives in a single car crash in the North Wall area of Dublin. No doubt they are leaving a grieving family behind. But my feelings of sympathy evaporated when I heard on the news that they had been driving a stolen taxi. What I would nearly want to ask their – no doubt grieving – parents is: What kind of upbringing did you impart that these young scumbags thought nothing of stealing and destroying an innocent taxi driver’s livelihood ?
    No, do not get me wrong. Any young life lost in an accident is a tragedy. But I blame the parents more than the tykes who killed themselves in that stolen taxi.

  29. Paudie

    I have no sympathy for anyone that’s hurt or killed in a stolen taxi, or even a private car. they knew what they were doing. what about the owner of the taxi, what about his pocket today. where does he stand with insurance. how long will he be off the road, and maybe no income.

  30. bohemian boy

    paudie i have said it before,i just cannot see why the taxi drivers dont get together and start up a hardship fund to assist drivers who find themselves in such would take a commitement from a few drivers to administer such a fund,but i really believe it could work

  31. Paudie

    boh i agree with you here, we should help that man out. his head is wrecked through no fault of his own. when will he be able to earn a few bob again. very unfair to him. i will gladly support that fund, if its set up. we never know when we might suffer the same expierence.

  32. flybynite

    I cannot really agree with you. We live in a society where we always seem to deny responsibility for our actions. Politicians and bankers have really refined the art of deflecting blame. It is a cowardly way of shifting the blame for their actions.
    But still, if a young guy (=scum) steals and wrecks some innocent person’s livelihood, in this case a taxi for some callous self-gratification, can he blame a drug dealer ? C’me on Frank, get real ! If you go out for a few pints and then get back into your taxi, cause an accident, will you be able to blame the publican ? We are responsible for our actions. For society and also for God who will be the final Judge. But we are here on earth and must account for our wrong-doing in a court of law – assuming we survive.
    No, I cannot feel much sympathy for this scumbag. But I do feel that his parents must share the blame. Parents are the first line in the upbringing of any young person. And they should teach them the difference between right and wrong. If they did not do that, they failed. And pay the price by mourning their son !

  33. chester

    Would have been a good time for taxis to call a strike we have put up with more shite than Dublin bus will ever have to all of us driving around with so many stickers on our cars its beginning to look like an advertisement for Duffy’s circus. We have been totally inialated by this gov and previous regulators our unions should seize this opportunity and bring the transport to a standstill until we get some sort of respect and a chance to earn a decent living just like they have done in France, where for the love of god is our Jim Larkin or James Connelly ?

  34. Paudie

    calling a strike now would not be a good idea, better to get out there and let the public see how good a service we irish taxi drivers provide. we are available 24/7 365, in all sorts of weather, we take you right to your door, not chuck you out at a bus stop and you have you walk the rest of the way. we are not pampered crying babies like overpaid dublin bus drivers.

  35. Paudie

    i wonder how many dublin bus drivers are driving taxis right now, instead of walking around in circles, like clowns, outside a bus depot.
    hope the strike goes on for weeks, and that dublin bus quango is broken up as a result.

  36. sclass

    Fair play to the bus drivers they have the balls to stand up for themselves.But the fact is Dublin bus are hemorrhaging money and it can’t continue.I think the drivers are in trouble.How long can they hold out without an income.
    Paudie.Be careful what you wish for .when the private buses get in and run through the night and more efficiently that’s not good for taxis.

  37. Paudie

    we tax payers are bailing out dublin bus every year with millions of euros, and then we have to compete with them. and to make things worse, lots of db scabs are driving taxis, straight after getting out of their bus. would rather see db gone, and private operators providing the service, without state handouts. it would be more of a level playing field.

  38. bohemian boy

    lads lets keep this in perspective.yes there are a lot of db bus drivers double jobbing,but if the new rules are to be believed their activity will be severely curtailed under the working time directive. what annoys me more then anything else is the fact that OUR money is being given to bail out our competitors, then the nta,and govt have the cheek to treat us as the poor relations in the transport system. it was only recently that they even considered us to BE part of the transport system at for the strike itself,i did not find any increase in business,in fact i found things WORSE. the reason was people were not traveling into town on the weekend,they stayed local instead.

  39. Paudie

    we are the ragbags of the irish public transport system. all they want is our fees, nothing else. they dont want us to have a voice anywhere. just roll over and play dead. good doggie.

  40. bohemian boy

    there is a fella over on the forum called jomac who made a statement that as long as we have reps like paul o b,and sc we are fukked. i presume its me he is refering to when he says paul o b,let me say firstly I AM NOT A REP.nor have i ever purported to be.what i am is a member of a very pro active LOBBY GROUP called capital taxi assocation . we at cta DO NOT claim to represent anyone,but we have an legitimate interest in the proper administration of the rules governing our industry for the betterment of all full time taxi persuit of that objective,we have sought to ensure that ALL taxi drivers are properly vetted including irish,and foreign nationals in line with the regulations governing the industry,and also in line with the laws of the land.if jomac,or anyone feels our objective is in any way flawed,please bring this to our attention and we will give consideration to your suggestion

  41. Paudie

    shame that all drivers are not being vetted properly. too many criminals have got through. business has been dragged into the gutter.

  42. Paudie

    back to the labour court, after being there for 14 months already. total joke, break up that quango. maybe second death will deter other muppets from stealing taxis.

  43. John

    Ger. Just to pick you up on your earlier rant regarding these so- called culchies/boggers. You shouldn’t generalise in that way. Just because someone is from outside our glorious capital, it doesn’t make them in any way worthy of your ridiculous name calling. Looking at your spelling, punctuation, and general use of the Queens english, someone could easily visualise an image of Ger. He is in his late twenties or early thirties- still a tad immature. He has a chip on his shoulder about most anything. He lives in the most fabulous (bleedin’) penthouse in Fatima Mansions- not that there aren’t many fine citizens residing there too. I wouldn’t generalise like that. He is a model taxi driver, totally legit of course, who would do his country proud whilst ferrying new visitors around, being their first point of contact and all that. He is one of those Dubs that are of the opinion that Dublin is indeed the only place in Ireland worth being in. Probably never been out of the place in his life, save the annual fortnight in Salou with his ilk. Anyone that has travelled or lived (properly) abroad, and has seen other cities around the globe, would see that Dublin is only a small place that thinks it’s a huge metropolis. Big fish in a small pond Ger. Big fish in a small pond. Now, my own father is a north Dubliner, but he certainly did not raise a family to carry on like the bould Ger. It’s time you got over yourself kid, and try not to be so insular. Your’re letting yourself, and your industry down badly, of which, by the way, I am a full time member. I regularly tip when out and about, be it taxis, restaurants, whatever- if I’m satisfied by the service, attitude of the service provider etc. Maybe you could take a peek in the mirror Ger and ask yourself why would it be that you don’t fare out too well in the tips dept?? And by the way, most people in boggerland who are blessed with the beautiful name of Gerard, or is it (Gerald?), are known by the shortened version of “Ger”. How ironic. Never really liked that particuler version, as it does indeed conjure up the stereotypical image of said culchie. But then again, i wouldn’t want to generalise, would I? Ta ta for now- Ger.

  44. bohemian boy

    i obviously escaped his wrath even though i am also guilty of such charges. i do have to wonder though,when john talks about the immature comments made by ger,who indeed is the most immature john,or ger.surely to take offence in such a trivial matter is immaturity in the extreme.considering our country cousins have traditionally referred to dubliners as jackeens

  45. bohemian boy

    yer man jomac is at it again over on the blog. does this guy not understand that cta are NOT a rep group,they are a lobby group. secondly it appears that jomac is IN FAVOUR of permitting UNVETTED immigrants into the his comments on the blog they are laughable

  46. ger

    John, sorry if i upset you. ya fooking big muck savage. get a grip, big thick bogger. what i wrote about ” country people” is what happens to me every weekend with big thick muckers up in dublin for the weekend. fook you and ur QUEENS english. arsehole.

  47. John

    Chill lads. I’m only havin a larf. I just stumbled across your blog when lookin for something else. It’s the first time i ever posted anything on anything. Didnt think it would work at all. Anyway, it’s only a bit of craic to while away those long quiet hours. And Ger. Come on now. Don’t be so angry. I’m only windin ya up. Don’t hate me. I must have hit a nerve. I didn’t mean to infer that you were anything less than a find upstanding member of the community. And Bo Boy, I have never referred to you guys as jackeens. Don’t even know what the word means, even though i would qualify as fifty per cent of one! Do I take it that your alias means you are a follower of a certain north city football club? Sorry we had to kick yo’ asses a couple of weeks back! 😉

  48. John

    Chill lads. I’m only havin a larf. I just stumbled across your blog when lookin for something else. It’s the first time i ever posted anything on anything. Didnt think it would work at all. Anyway, it’s only a bit of craic to while away those long quiet hours. And Ger. Come on now. Don’t be so angry. I’m only windin ya up. Don’t hate me. I must have hit a nerve. I didn’t mean to infer that you were anything less than a find upstanding member of the community. (just keep an eye on those full stops and capitals and so on..). Bo Boy, I have never referred to you guys as jackeens. Don’t even know what the word means, even though i would qualify as fifty per cent of one! Do I take it that your alias means you are a follower of a certain north city football club? Sorry we had to kick yo’ asses a couple of weeks back! 😉

  49. bohemian boy

    generally speaking our country cousins tend to refer to dublin folk as dublin jackeens.i believe this is also where the term the jacks is derived from to describe the dublin football team,although i am not 100% sure as i dont follow gaa. yes you are right i am a bohemian supporter.bohs till i die

  50. John

    Fair play bohemian boy. And in terms of football, we gotta stick by our own through thick and thin. Lord knows, where I’m from, we’ve endured more thin than thick in recent times. This year’s a bit better due to the valued assistance of one Mr. Steven kenny. Big shout out to the boys over in Tallaght for showing him the gate last season. BIG mistake, as was shown on Friday last. He must still have a mile- wide grin on his face. Anyway that’s enough non- taxi talk for now.

  51. adefmi owoade

    hello bohemian boy. i am friend of driver that was robbed by thugs. i like very much your idea to help him with some money. how can i give some money? if you need to find him to give him the money i can help.

  52. adefmi owoade

    no dont send money to me. sorry my english is not good. i want to give you some money to go with the rest of the money you collect. i can tell u where to send all the money when the collecting is over if you need to know. where can i meet u to give you my money?

  53. adefmi owoade

    i must go to work now. i will reed your answer very later. if u see me working come over for some talk. the drivers call me aldi.

  54. ger

    John, i forgive you, this time. 95% of what i post is humour. The other 5% is serious and is directed at the king if the imported goshites. winks,lol and more winks. A.O. i will send you my bank account number and sort code. Please feel free to help yourself to whatever amount you need. you sound like a find upstanding honest gentleman.

  55. John

    Right witcha on that one Ger. ;-)I’ve no time for the imported clunts either. This AO character- how do I get a hold of him? I’ve reams of hard earned dough to unload and need a good fund manager to find a home for them (preferably offshore, say, somewhere like a nice safe haven on the dark continent). Hey Aldi! Give us a bell and we’ll cut a deal. Just leave me enough to replace the effin turbo that blew on me today on a car I only bought 4 weeks ago! Grrr.

  56. John

    Right witcha on that one Ger. 😉 I’ve no time for the imports either. Nothing but trouble- in my opinion. All they do is take money out of my pocket week after week, and give eff all in return- in my opinion. It should be 100% Irish all the way- in my opinion. Hold on. Just to be clear, we are talking about cars, right? 😉 Btw, this AO character- how do I get hold of him? I’ve a ton of greenbacks just lookin for a home, such is the great state of our industry, and I need a good fund manager to look after them, (preferably offshore). Hey Aldi! Give us a bell and we’ll cut a deal. Just leave me enough to replace the effin turbo that blew today, on a car I only bought 4 weeks ago! And that’s not all. Grrrr.

  57. sidewinder

    if u invest 40,000 euro into taxi industry u get 3 vehicals on the road and u get 600 a week in rent!! if uinvest 250.000 in property u get 900 a month.thats of course if u look at it as an buissness investment.

  58. chester

    @the lads on the O’connell St taxi rank would there be any possibillity that some of you could come up here to the green rank and run the illegal taxis that ply for hire only feet away. Thanks

  59. bohemian boy

    chester the drivers on o connell st are just the same as the ones on the foster all mouth. they have a reputation of taking no shite from anyone. the crowd on the fosters stand around yapping every night while the crowd outside the londis shop steal their work and they dont have the balls to approach these towrags.these illegal operators have now moved down to within touching distence of the fosters, and STILL the legitimate drivers dont have the balls to tell them to fukk off

  60. bohemian boy

    i was talking to a fella this morning who told me that he got into a taxi last night on georges quay,and after 2 and a half hours of the driver trying to find graingers pub on the malahide road,yer man eventually found it and asked the punter for 85 euro. the punter said the driver could speak very little english,and he reckons the driver was in the country about a week. we are asked to believe the likes of this clown sat down and passed a written detailed knowledge test about dublin. the nta are treating us like gobshites,afraid to refuse the likes of this idiot a licence in case the likes of mary[noddy] robinson and her ilk kick off in protest

  61. bohemian boy

    father dick byrnes assignment was to say boll,x very loudly in front of president mary robinson.i would also have a few things to say in front of president mary robinson,boll,x being the least upsetting word

  62. Paudie

    if these fools dont get a psv licence, they just shout racism. thats all it takes for a licence to be granted. business is in the gutter because of these foreign idiots. i would also like to meet noddy, and ask her a few questions. but she would not like to meet me.

  63. bohemian boy

    to the irish government i say,HOW DARE YOU go on hoildays on your extended 8 weeks break. you do this in the full knowledge that legitimate taxi operators are out there struggling to survive,and provide for their do this in the knowledge that they are competing with illegal operators on a daily do this in the knowledge that they are competing with people who are already in gainful employment,and are eroding the livlihoods of men,and women who are totally dependent of the taxi industry for a do this in the knowledge that some have taken the ultimate step because they could not cope with the heavy burden you have placed upon their do this in the knowledge that the orginisation you have chosen to carry out your uncaring deeds [the nta] are only concerned with filling the coffers of their own bank account,and are incapable of understanding,or compassion for the plight of full time taxi drivers. to the irish government i say SHAME ON YOU. to full time taxi drivers i say UNITE and do it behind the banner of the reps who,together with your support,and commitment will eventually win this battle.always remember a union is only as strong as its members. we as ordinary drivers have got to show ciommitment to the reps as much as they have got to show commitment to us. they must be let know they have the full support of drivers going forward. i believe WE WILL WIN

  64. adefmi owoade

    bohemian boy i wish i was the owner of a big supermarket. maybe 1 day. the drivers call me aldi because every day my wife puts my food in a aldi bag. africans always make up names for everyone like that. you are very good for taxi drivers and fighting for their corner. sum of the drivers say your site is racist but i tell them of your call for a collection for matthew and his family and it might change their minds. you are very hard on irish govement. in nigeria nobody can make money unless he is a friend of the polititians. at least here everybody can work and earn money if he wants to.

  65. ger

    How many irish drivers have had to leave the taxi industry because they are not supported by the state? Eg. welfare payments, medical card,free BRAND NEW council houses and every other benefit that is going. some day a driver is going to take a case to the courts against the nta,goverment etc because he was forced off the road because of bogus refugees who got everything handed to them.

  66. Paudie

    boh fights for Irish taxi drivers, not your type. you call everyone racist. ever think about going back home if you are not happy here. you wont be missed.

  67. sclass

    Spot on bo boy .Their is a lot of anti rep feeling out their.deregulation brought the end to rep dependence. Myself included became totally disillusioned with the lot of them.
    To try and turn that mindset around and change the attitude of the majority of taxi drivers would be a mammoth task.what its going to take for drivers to react to the many issues in the industry I do not know or understand.Its mind boggling.

  68. Paudie

    very sad to see parents on tv3 news today fighting for medical cards for their kids with downs syndrome . makes me really angry to see this when africans are handed medical cards the moment they come here. the system stinks.

  69. Paudie

    nta prefer to have taxi drivers just as they are right now. totally disorganised and not knowing where to turn next. they can be led like sheep in this frame of mind.

  70. bohemian boy

    the one thing both the nta,and the government fear is the unification of the taxi industry.think about it. there are people waiting in the wings with the know how,and ability to lead us forward.all we have to do is give them a proper mandate. i know the leadership of ttnh,nita etc etc certainly can do the job they were elected to do all they need to know is that our spirits are STILL high even in the face of the adversory we have faced in recent years,and that we are prepared for the fight. with the numbers of full time drivers we have, NOTHING can stop us. ring your union tell them they have your full support, sometimes people need to be told the efforts they make on our behalf is very much appreiciated.sometimes others need encouragement to.

  71. chester

    That’s quiet impressive BB we full time are now as low as we can be so i will contact my union and explain to them my sentiments on this farce of a taxi industry to me the regulators, enforcers and the politicians are an overpaid lazy incompetent bunch of wasters

  72. John

    Folks on a different matter, can anyone tell me the best place to look for personal security/protection items? And I don’t mean pickaxe handles or baseball bats. Too cumbersome. Had a very close call recently, and realised I should have something to hand, just as a deterent if nothing else. Would rather not get involved in stuff. So where to go and what to get, would be my question.. Cheers.

  73. ger

    A nice big torch. i know a driver who battered a runner with one of these. i have one. just waiting for a runner so i can try it out. its like an iron bar only its legal. NTA says we have to have a torch as part of our kit. happy days.

  74. bohemian boy

    chester yes it is exactly as you describe moral is very low,and yes the people you describe are uncaring,lazy,and overpaid, but who are the people that can change that ? thats right we the drivers.there are a lot of clever people at the helm,people with plenty of experience who can lead us out of this mess. its no harm at all to say to reps now, and again well done for what you are doing on our behalf.encourage them, let both them,the government,and the nta know that you stand firmly behind your representitive body,and are prepared to take action should action become nessesary.look how quickly the bus drivers were brought to the table for talks. this happened because they were united in their quest to protect their conditions of employment,and had strong union leadership. i hate when,every day on this forum i see drivers saying ah the industry is fukked. the industry is NOT fukked.if people keep saying that the low moral you speak of will always be there. lets restore the confidence in ourselves as human beings that has been battered by this government,and lets restore the confidence in our reps by saying to them well done,you have our full support in trying to win the conditions we deserve. dont forget what the reps are looking for is a fully legal,fully compliant,fully professional,FULL TIME,taxi thats something that everyone who cares about the industry should subscribe to,this is supposed to be in line with what the govt,and the nta,want,and if either shirk in their responsibility in trying to bring that about,then it should not be the taxi drivers asking the questions,it should be the public. so let the reps know what you think and feel

  75. John

    Yeah sounds good. It’s not really the runners i’m too concerned about. Gave up chasing them a long time ago. They’re few and far between and only small money. I take those on the chin, annoying and all as it is. The bigger fares, I get up front before the car moves. It’s the more sinister ones I’m talking about. Was in America in June, went down the flea markets. Any amount of stalls with serious equipment. Stuff that would stop an elephant in it’s tracks. I know the legalities and all that, but still… I’m not new to the game though, just want to get something to have close at hand. Cheers for the replys.

  76. Paudie

    I got the crap kicked outta me few years back by 3 thugs who did not want to pay the fare. ever since that, iron bar at right hand. no apologies to anyone for having it there. and I wont remove it from car.

  77. adefmi owoade

    hello paudie. i did not meen anyone is racist. sorry my english is not good. what i mean is that sum drivers say this site is racist. then i talk about bohemian boys plan to give matthew money. u offered your money very fast even before me. this shows the whole world that when we are in trouble we all come together even if they think we are enemys. i am very happy here. the irish govement does lots to help people that must run away from africa. thats why i think bohemian boy is hard on the polititians. i am happy jest to do my work and make some money. being free to do that means so much to me and lots like me. one of the drivers told me that the nta bosses want to find a driver born in africa or china to work for the commitee that tells them how to make the business better for us. i hope bohemian boy works for them to. a lot of the drivers are going to work with weapons. there mite be a lot more thugs killed.

  78. Paudie

    you ran away from africa just like pammy super liar from sligo. poor pammy had to leave all her maids behind. what sacrafice did you make ?

  79. Paudie

    forgot to mention that we sent pammy back, we are really kind people. she could not manage the housework without the maids. when ever you are ready for home ,just let us know. you will have to travel economy class, business class is kinda pricey right now.

  80. adefmi owoade

    They knew that Paul, they’re just having the craic FFS. How are ya keeping anyway? Jomac was on saying your one of them racists now, Regards RC.

  81. sclass

    AO I got a fine Machete off one of your buddies.he didn’t realize we don’t grow sugarcane over here.
    By the way AO where is that bongo bongo land.The amount of foreign aid they get from the UK alone one billion pounds a fukking month.
    To buy Russian mig fighter jets and fukk knows what else.No one knows where the money goes
    Would you have any idea AO.

  82. flybynite

    Great big maglite totally legit and it makes very nasty dents in attackers’ skulls. Only if we use it I s’pose we will be in the dock for excessive violence.

  83. sclass

    Rat more than likely there getting them off somone who did the course
    Got the certificate and got a load printed off.And selling them down on the green a tenner a’s plausible. A taxi man just trying a bit harder. To have a bord Failte sticker on the winda could double your income.

  84. Rat Catcher

    It’s not going to work if the nn have them. Tourists want Irish drivers with good local knowledge and who know the history of all the monuments, what is on display in the museums, where the best restaurants are, what shows are on and so forth.

  85. Paudie

    you have just outlined a few good reasons why no nn is fit to hold a psv licence, or drive a taxi in ireland. they dont have a clue about irish culture.

  86. Rat Catcher

    Struggling Paul, struggling!

    Ya wanna see the list of new SPSV driving licences issued Paudie. It’s like a bleedin’ recruitment list for Al Qaeda. Vetting my arse. If it keeps going the way it is it’ll be like the bleedin’ security game, spot the white man.

  87. Paudie

    put the valid ones with the bogus ones, and we are looking at one almighty mess. well done noddy. hope you are still getting your big pension.

  88. ger

    Well when you have a small country like ireland that is borrowing 50MILLION euro a day,everyday,just to run the country, i cant see how much longer we can take in every con artist that arrives on our shores with a made up sob story, who by the way overflew 15 other countries to get here ( i wonder why) and is then handed everything by a stupid welfare system that is rotten to the core. and then the scammers have the neck to western union 425 million euro out of the country back to nigeria every year. And thats just one of the many countries that billions of euro is sent to!. While our garda stations close, cut backs in the health service bite, our own people leave by the plane load etc etc . And what do we get? Planeloads of scroungers whose first stop is the dole office,2nd stop is the counci office to demand a new council house, and the next step is to get a taxi on the road!. so how long can this continue for? It will keep going until this country ends up like the cesspits that the scroungers came from. and then when they have us bled dry,the will move on to the country that has no immigration laws and a fooking FREE ATM as a welfare system. They dont call us stupid irish pigs for nothing. This is not the ireland i grew up in. this is a country that has been destroyed by happy clappy,bleedin heart, do gooders who have no idea about the social unrest that is coming down the road. A COUNTRY RUINED. rant over.

  89. Paudie

    rant is justified ger, long term damage to our country has yet to be seen. and it will not be pretty. too much handouts being given to imports who just laugh at us. same imports being jumped up housing lists ahead of irish people. same crew taking school places that irish kids should get. and robinson continues to send them by the plane load, they are like vip’s arriving here. more austerity for irish people, while the handouts continue for imports. why do we tolerate it.

  90. Rat Catcher

    Yeah, I was hoping Bord Failte approval might help Irish drivers get an edge over the nn, that a customer could confidently select car displaying the stickers in the knowledge that it would be operated by an Irish driver.

    Unfortunately, the nn are here to stay. The new vetting standard proposed by Minister Kelly may serve to remove a handful of Irish drivers (including those that ought be exempt under the terms of the Good Friday agreement) but the nn will continue to be assumed to have no convictions at point of entry unless they declare that they have (not bloody likely!). The same applies to the other game they’ve all but monopolised i.e. security. In fact PSA don’t even check with the Gardai or Interpol anymore, once the nn doesn’t declare a criminal record prior to immigration he is assumed to have no such criminal record.

    It’s really up to Irish drivers to communicate directly to customers why they ought not travel with nn. There was one FF Senator who put on record the fact the he would not risk it. We hear endless anecdotes of nn not knowing their arse from their elbow, nn sexually assaulting their clients, etc… Irish drivers must let customers know the risk they are taking if they choose to travel with nn. Ms. Doyle done her bit in informing clients that they have the right to choose. She led drivers to the water, it’s up to drivers to drink it!

  91. Rat Catcher

    Here’s the records for a couple of cars that might interest you lads. TD’ll give out to me for sharing the info with yis but it is only two examples, there are a lot more very similar. What’s notable is that one car is used to keep several plates from lapsing/expiring and in every case the car ends up on a plate owned by someone with a name that appears to be Indian/Pakistani.

    10D120614 TAXI T15196 KEVIN MURPHY
    10D120614 TAXI T22136 UNKNOWN
    10D120614 TAXI T21898 BRIAN SMYTH
    10D120614 TAXI T22245 UNKNOWN
    10D120614 TAXI T14814 ANTHONY MCNAMARA
    10D120614 TAXI T21827 RAFIQUL ISLAM

    10D120925 TAXI T18955 GERARD FANNING
    10D120925 TAXI T37650 UNKNOWN
    10D120925 TAXI T36563 UNKNOWN
    10D120925 TAXI T42390 UNKNOWN
    10D120925 TAXI T17698 KARANVIR SINGH

    The reason some of the plate owners are UNKNOWN is that they were never published on the online register. They were picked up from the TfI app while it was under development, notably they’ve been hidden from view within the app since.

  92. Rat Catcher

    They obviously do have owners but in all but one case (as below) the online register only returns the plate most recently associated with the car. The app doesn’t give the plate owner’s name so we couldn’t ascertain that information during the period that the relevant information was published within the app.

    This is the only case (that I’m aware of) where the online register shows a single vehicle being associated with two active plates:

    Licence Number: T18252
    Licence Type: Taxi
    Licence Status: Active
    Licence Expiry Date: 03/05/2014
    Vehicle Registration No.: 05D6418
    Name of Licence Holder: ANTHONY EVANS

    Licence Number: T32184
    Licence Type: Taxi
    Licence Status: Active
    Licence Expiry Date: 26/04/2014
    Vehicle Registration No.: 05D6418
    Name of Licence Holder: STUART KESSIE

    Funnily enough if you search T32184 on the app it just returns details for T18252.

  93. Rat Catcher

    Sorry, I should add it’s more down to True Dub’s diligence in analysing data that we find information like this. My own relatively minor contribution is in devising systems others use to collect/analyse data.

  94. True Dub

    Taxi drivers need to know whats going on with their industry, there are a quite a few who contribute to collecting dissecting info including Taz and The Mermaid, there is definitely some strange things going on, its a bit early to draw any conclusions yet, but the MPO’s have been busy

  95. ger

    I found out from the nta that some roof sign numbers in dublin have the same BADGE numbers as say a driver in mayo or sligo. eg you input a roof sign you see in dublin and up pops a different car, driver and area code. when i reported this to the nta i was told that the drivers were issued badge numbers that are the match to a roof sign in mayo and sligo. wonderful.

  96. True Dub

    There are more than 400 drivers that have badge numbers identical to vehicle licence numbers, its not isolated to sligo and mayo

  97. True Dub

    Its not the NTA’s fault, those licence numbers were issued first to taxi drivers by the carriage office then by the TRD to vehicle licence holders before the NTA were in charge

  98. sidewinder

    tru blue i like ur observation skills,but i blame nta for doing bad job,but i want to ask any cabbie,is their or has their ever being a fully fleged leagally regesterd taxi unouin and bb with ur eye for detail im relying on u,and for the love of god cabbies dont throw n.t.d.u at me!!throw 100% fact…check it out did we ever have one?

  99. Paudie

    joan burton is under pressure to save 440 million in her dept this year. very easy to sort that, just withdraw all benefits from africans, and problem sorted. better again to deport them, and that would clean up the taxi industry also.

  100. bohemian boy

    rat do you ever get sick of stirring it up ? you know as well as i do the particular man you speak of is a huge loss to our group,and its unfortunate that he is no longer involved.however i know cta can always call on john for any advice we may require going forward.he is held in very high regard by all at cta,and the taxi industry in general for the unbelievable amount of work he has done on our behalf in the dearest wish is that he will reconsider his decision to step down,and come back to us.

  101. Rat Catcher

    I just say it as I see it BB. CTA is at least as responsible as any other contributor for the mess the trade is in. It was CTA that convinced Jerry Brennan to endorse the MABS brochure advertising the trade as a source of pocket money for welfare recipients. If truth be known that is responsible for more NN in the game than anything else. More importantly the definition of working hours within that publication (i.e. you are only “working” when engaged with a client) is what prevents any meaningful restrictions on working hours.

    I don’t doubt that CTA has good intentions but, to date, it has done a lot more harm than good IMO.

  102. bohemian boy

    rat you are entitled to your opinion, but i will not be engaging with you any further on this matter. most people are aware of the tremendous work done by john regards getting gerry brennan to endorse mabs,jerry is very much his own man,and makes his own decisions regarding tb,or nita as it is now. you have slagged jerry brennan off numerous times on the forum,some of which i would say was slanderous.whetever your reasons for that are,i dont know ,but now you are trying to say jk was instrumental in bringing us to where we are now.rat i believe you are shit stirring,and i will not respond to any further post in regard to this matter

  103. Rat Catcher

    You’re also entitled to your opinion. John endorsed the review report, that’s a matter of public record. Jerry Brennan is a lying, cheating scumbag, that is proven within his actions. If you (or the lying, cheating, scumbag himself) believe that to be slanderous, you or he are free to take appropriate legal action.

    I’m not shit stirring. I just don’t agree with your somewhat biased opinion that CTA has done any good for the trade. MABS exploited CTA in producing it’s brochure which was clearly aimed at encouraging welfare recipients to drive taxis. You may think it’s a good thing that welfare recipients can earn a bit of pocket money from the game, I don’t. No prizes for guessing which drivers are at the top of the queue for the handouts. You might think it’s a good thing that double jobbers can drive around in their cabs for 50/60/70 hours a week and only have 5/6/7 hours counted as working hours. I don’t.

  104. bohemian boy

    back to radio companies,and the ILLEGAL practice of plying for hire from hotel car parks.i sent fullerton yet another email asking him why he has failed to act insofar as stopping this. i await his reply

  105. Rat Catcher


    Ya wanna see the Burlington at the weekend. The soldiers were doing jobs without their taxis. Army Personnel vehicles being used to transport civilians to the Royal Dublin Society.

  106. Rat Catcher

    Jackeen over on Roy’s forum summed it up as follows:

    “army personal vehicles were ferrying customers from the burlo to the rds to. day , an attempted blockage of the gate was prevented by gardai , taxi drivers were told it was organised by bord failte with nta approval .”

  107. True Dub

    No doubt all the army drivers had valid SPSV driving licenses, and the officer in charge would have made sure only properly qualified soldiers were tasked with the duty.

  108. True Dub

    If the NTA gave their approval then no doubt they would have checked the qualifications of the drivers to ensure they were properly vetted etc etc.
    Maybe taxi drivers should turn up at Charles Burgess barracks with guns in army uniforms.

  109. Paudie

    if nta would approve something like that, then they are not fit for purpose, and time for that quango to be abolished. perhaps a freedom of information request would be justified.

  110. bohemian boy

    anyone know when the taxi bill is due to be brought back before the dail and assuming it gets a smooth passage through, when it will become law ? i would say a lot of it is ALREADY law,they are just not being enforced. like the illegal ranks all over the place,the illegal plying for hire from hotel car parks,etc etc, fullerton once told me in an email in response to my ongoing complaint about this,that radio companies are not responsible for drivers illegally plying for hire from hotel car parks,its the drivers themselves. he said that because a driver may have an assocation with a radio company logo on his roof sign,this does not make the radio company responsible for the driver plying for hire from a hotel car park.i asked him then why does he not issue a fine to the driver then in that case. no response,and that was two years ago

  111. Paudie

    boh thats why we are in such a mess. no one will make any firm decisions, or take responsibility. kelly is on his long holiday, still being over paid, so he dont know or care whats going on.

  112. john m

    @Boh The ranking in hotels will be solved by removing the restriction .all this bolloxology about illegal ranks is just that bolloxology .What drivers objected to was NN drivers not using the official ranks .The reality is you got to go to where the work is .Passengers wont cross the road to get a taxi .Ranks are a thing of the past passengers want a car where they want it and when they want it .
    look at leeson Street or Harcourt Street .Temple Bar .Do you seriously believe that the thin blue will do anything about taxies ranking where the public want them and the thin blue need to disperse the crowds quickly ?

  113. bohemian boy

    paudie at the moment,and for some time now,on all approach roads leading to dublin city centre,there are massive illuminated signs erected saying PARK LEGALLY IN DUBLIN.what a joke. both the people responsible for erecting them, [dcc] and the people responsible for enforcing it,[the gardai] totally ignore have only to drive through dublin city centre on any given night of the week to see all the illegal taxi ranks being formed by these unscrouplas cowboys who steal the work from their colleagues who have taken the trouble to do things the right way,and get on an official rank.this is a complete waste of tax payers money on such signs.

  114. Paudie

    garda and nta guys need to both do their job, and stop these illegal ranks. and maybe if they caught a few of the illegal operators also it would help us honest irish drivers. too many cars out there now dressed up as taxis, but they are bogus, and the drivers are getting away with it.

  115. Rat Catcher

    With a taxi:rank space ratio in excess of 20:1 up above in Dublin informal ranking is inevitable. Proposed CCTV monitoring should serve to eliminate the often dangerous practice of hanging on the back of ranks.

    Dunno whether the reports of military operations at the Burlington are accurate or not but I was at Royal Hickstead last year and I noticed a lot of British Army personnel vehicles there. Maybe there’s reciprocal arrangements between teams at international horse shows?

  116. bohemian boy

    rat as you say with that kind of radio informal ranking is inevitable,however this does not make it legal, and in my opinion should not be engaged in at the expense of others who try to play within the rules.every driver who plays within the rules should demand the fullerton and his gang get off their well paid arses and do their job to ensure that all legal operators rights are protected

  117. bohemian boy

    here is a reply i received this morning from richard bruton
    Dear Paul

    Just a note to attached below reply I have received for your information in the above following representations on your behalf. I hope that this clarifies the matter for you.

    Dear Minister Bruton,

    I refer to your recent correspondence to Minister Kelly on behalf of Mr Paul O’Beirne which has been forwarded to this office for direct reply.

    The Taxi Regulation Bill 2012 is currently being considered by the Oireachtas. Until such time as the final Act is available the National Transport Authority cannot make any policies or procedures around same.

    Mr O’Beirne has been in contact with our Compliance Department. He raised a concern that hotels were entering into agreements with taxi companies to provide an ‘exclusive service’. Such agreements are not illegal under the current legislation.

    In Dublin, 176 Fixed Charge Penalties have been issued for ‘illegal standing for hire’ in 2013 mainly for vehicles standing in the city centre and in close proximity to compliant drivers who were standing, often for long periods, at official taxi ranks. The volume of complaints received from other drivers and members of the public for these areas have warranted such attention. In June, in response to complaints, the team focussed upon Heuston Station where drivers waiting for long periods on the official rank were ‘losing out’ to those acting illegally. Also, the volume of customer complaints from Dublin Airport means that officers remain at that location for extended periods.

    The Compliance Team remains the only agency with the capability of issuing Fixed Charge Penalties for multiple SPSV offences. The Taxi Regulation Bill 2012 will extend the powers of An Garda Síochána to issue a number of Fixed Charge Penalties which will mean that Garda members can address many of the issues that we are called upon to deal with in cities and towns.

    Also in the coming months, the Authority proposes to introduce additional compliance staff under an outsourced service contract. It is intended that they will be granted powers to deal with issues such as those experienced at hotels.

    Yours sincerely,

    Hugh Creegan
    Deputy Chief Executive
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    Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Supporting The Gathering Ireland 2013.

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  118. bohemian boy

    i have already replied to minister bruton to advise him that i believe mr creegan is wrong when he says this arrangement is not illegal. i pointed out while its not illegal to have such an arragement between such parties,on the basis where a booking service exist,it certainly is illegal for taxis to remain stationary in the car parks and take the impromptu work coming out of such hotels. i also pointed out that it does not require the taxi bill to be ratified by the dail in order to apply the laws of the land. the fact that there is a reluctance by both the nta officers,and the gardai to uphold such laws for the protection of legitimate operators is totally unacceptable,and in breach of their own rules

  119. Rat Catcher

    On the face of it the focus on illegal ranking within close proximity to legal ranks seems reasonable.

    The statement that it is not illegal for hotels to enter into exclusive contracts with taxi firms is obviously correct but doesn’t address illegal activity surrounding the operation of such arrangements, particularly insofaras the operation of exclusive ranks on such premises contravenes bye-laws within Dublin City Council’s administrative area.

    Fair play to you for pressing the issues, I trust you won’t let it lie with that response!

  120. bohemian boy

    unfortunately all of my recent correspondence regarding my questions about the industry have had to go through richard bruton as kellys office have refused to reply to me personnally .they stopped replying months ago and they will only reply through bruton.the one question i keep asking more then the others is though,how do they intend to police the introduction of the new rules,and in particular the limiting of hours for the double jobbers ?

  121. Rat Catcher

    I’d guess they don’t. The Bill only gives them the right to limit drivers’ hours, a right they already have under the 2003 Act. They haven’t used that power to date so it’s difficult to conclude that they will in future. In fact the only response I’ve heard from Minister Kelly is that it’s a very complex area as it’s difficult to define working hours.

  122. bohemian boy

    its not really,all they have to do is OUTLAW double jobbing of the taxi industry on the basis of health,and safety.this is also something that would find favour with the taxi using public.regarding the fatigue factor

  123. bohemian boy

    rat i always believed that this industry is heading down the road of tachographs. i personelly dont believe that to be a bad thing,because if there is a real push to remove illegals,double jobbers,one man one area,etc drivers will not have to work any more then the prescribed 48 hours a week,leaving them free to enjoy the same entitlement as people in the paye sector,and still make a decent living.this will also give them family time which im sure you agree is very important

  124. Rat Catcher

    The working hours reported within Indecon 2011 suggest that part-timers only work an average of c.17 hours per week. Even if they were doing 35 hours in another occupation the combined total would be less than average total hours reported for full-time drivers. That suggests that full-time drivers are more likely to suffer from fatigue than part-time drivers.

  125. Rat Catcher

    I agree 100% that working hours ought to be restricted for all drivers. Double jobbers hours would have to be reduced in accordance with hours worked in other occupations, not necessarily straightforward where the other occupations are ad-hoc or on a self-employed or under the counter basis. The Minister referred to the difficulty in defining working hours when questioned about the possible use of tachographs and/or comparable technologies. The first thing that needs to be done is to get rid of the definition of working hours put forward by MABS i.e. a driver is only “working” when he has a fare on board. Minister Kelly seems reluctant to rock that boat.

  126. Rat Catcher

    The problem being that the figures within Indecon 2011, as endorsed by Minister Kelly’s review group, suggest that full-timers pose a greater risk than part-timers in that regard. I don’t believe Minister Kelly will do anything about double jobbing. He has dodged the issue with nonsense provisions that amount to nothing. Like you say, if he wanted to tackle it why not outlaw it, at least in respect of participants with other occupations that involve driving. Since PTI and the bold Kennedy we’ve gone from a situation where Dublin Bus drivers, for example, hid their taxis from their bosses in fear of repercussions to one in which they openly drive them into the bus depot. As I type, Kennedy is clocked in and operating his taxi according to the TfI app yet remains gainfully employed by Dublin Bus.

  127. Rat Catcher

    Although, I will add, it would be of more benefit to regulate double jobbers out of the game AFTER plates become non-transferable. I guess we cannot completely discount the possibility that Minister Kelly is luring them into a false sense of security.

  128. Rat Catcher

    It would, of course, be of more benefit to regulate double jobbers out of the game after plates become non-transferable. I guess we cannot completely discount the possibility that Minister Kelly is luring them into a false sense of security.

  129. bohemian boy

    i dont doubt what you say rat,in fact i have seen this myself quite recently by one mr norman mcknight in clontarf depot.i was in communication with dublin bus management in relation to this,and i received a long detailed reply about how their inspectors are trained in the administration of the working time directive,and how serious the company take such breaches of same.they when on to tell me how there is a daily check on drivers to make sure they comply with the terms of the directive.they even told me they followed a certain induvidual [who they were not prepared to name] because of their suspicions that he was in breach of it. in other words they must have though the word boll.x was printed on my forehead.

  130. bohemian boy

    rat it if you look at all the comments made in respect of double jobbing,particularly at ministerial level,the enphises has always been on people with other DRIVING jobs. this prompted me to ask minister bruton to find out if it is kellys intention to subject ONLY those involved in other driving jobs,i cannot find the actual reply,but from memory i recall the answer was no it will be applied right across the board. this of course was before sean d barrett got his teeth in to it. another question i asked of kellys office was,is the holding up of the bill the result of barretts constant interference in his quest to keep the double jobbers working ? they refuse to answer in writing,but told me on the phone that it was without actually naming barrett though

  131. john m

    There is no law against having more than one job .The war is lost .The issue of drivers having employment as drivers outside of their taxi just puts the onus for any safety concerns back on the employers .Minister Kelly dosent want to take the blame when some school bus driver drives over a q of kids or smashes into a bridge because he fell asleep at the wheel .If he introduced a working time directive most drivers who cannot make a living doing silly hours would go on the dole and the doublejobbers would take up the slack .

  132. Rat Catcher

    Thanks for stating the BBO john, about as much use as a chocolate fireguard as usual. The point is that there should be a law against it. The employer declaration is a load of nonsense. Unions will have a field day with any employer that tries to hamper their members’ rights to hold licences, bearing in mind the licence does not mean the licence holder drives a cab. That’s all hot air. The problem with the working time directive is that it doesn’t apply to self-employment. The problem with calculating working hours in the taxi game is that MABS (an arm of the State) have defined working hours as hours engaged with a client. Hence Kennedy can drive around or rank up for as many hours as he likes provided he doesn’t get too many jobs.

  133. john m

    here is the solution .Get a job dont matter doing what work at it and drive your cab .Make a tax return for your taxi earnings .Now when you have enough stamps get sacked and sign on. When your stamps run out you can sign for job seekers and still drive your taxi as you have established by your working record that you can hold down a full time job and drive your taxi .All perfectly legal.

  134. chester

    It would be more beneficial for social welfare to demand that any taxi driver that is claiming social welfare should be the first to have tachographs installed in their cabs along with a printout of money earned while driving a taxi this could reduce the number of fraudulent claims.

  135. bohemian boy

    rat unions can hardly start kicking off about their members rights to hold a taxi licence considering one of their fundamental policies is to support a principal of one man one about smoked salmon socialist huh

  136. Rat Catcher

    You don’t need to establish whether or not you can hold down a full-time job to claim Jobseekers Allowance. Minister Kelly stated that up to 50% of taxi drivers claim welfare legitimately. The Ministeress for Social Protection outlined the scheme under which taxi drivers may claim Jobseekers Allowance up above in Dail Eireann. All perfectly legal.

    How about this for a solution… as soon as plates become non-transferable Minister Kelly outlaws double jobbing?

  137. Rat Catcher

    Of course they can (and will) BB. The licence is a qualification, not a job. It doesn’t force the holder to drive a cab, it entitles him too. Any union that fails to protect it’s members qualifications is failing in it’s duty to it’s members. SIPTU once had a taxi branch yet did nothing to members of other branches from holding or operating taxi licences.

  138. Frank

    Time spent driving a bus bus is recorded on a tachograph,time in a taxi isn’t, if DB were to find out that a driver has just finished a 12 hour shift in a cab, then takes out a vehicle capable of carrying 74 people, and do nothing, heads will roll….probably the bus passengers.

  139. Paudie

    dublin bus already know that their drivers are double jobbing in taxis and coming to work cross eyed tired. they dont seem to have the courage to confront this problem. wait until some scab crashes a double decker some day, and kills several people. then they will act.

  140. bohemian boy

    paudie as i said in a previous post,dublin bus acknowledged to me that some staff members double job the taxi industry,but they told me that unless i can provide definite proof that they have exceeded the terms of the working time directive [which they claim they take seriously] they are powerless to do anything about it. the depot assistant manager in clontarf told me that on foot of my complaint they had,for a number of weeks followed a particular driver about which i had made the charges.i suspect that either this towrag was tipped off by the person who was supposed to follow him,or he was not followed at all. i suspect the latter to be the case as dublin bus dont have the balls for confrontation with the trade unions who support those who steal the livlihoods of others,yet support a policy of one man one job.i would like to say to john m,and rat, or anyone else dont forget we have power also.what we do not have however is unity. i urge all ttnh,nita fed,etc members to go to your unions tell them you have had enough,and let us together bring this country to a prepared to do whatever it takes .these people in government have made such action nessesary,by their INACTION

  141. john m

    @Paudie you missunderstand .all a taxi driver has to do is inform dublin bus that he has a taxi and that he never drives it when he is fostered on .

  142. bohemian boy

    paudie unfortunately john is correct. this is what i was told by management. that all employees must declare any outside employment they are engaged in, however there will be no consuquences as long as they do not breach the working time directive terms

  143. Paudie

    boh I agree with you, we need to protest. the business has become a joke with scabs and illegal drivers. Kelly is a plonker, he will sort nothing except more trains in tipp.
    john I know how db operates now, and the trust they place in their drivers. of course no driver would get out of a bus after his shift, and get straight into a taxi for another 10 hours. likewise, that same driver would not get back into his bus after two hours sleep and endanger hundreds of live during the day, prior to getting back into his taxi for the night. and this taxi is parked in the staff car park all day, for all to see. DB just don’t have the bottle to confront these scabs, and tell them to choose one job or the other.

  144. bohemian boy

    paudie dublin bus have stated to me that severe disciplinary action would be taken against any member of staff found to be in breach of the rules governing the working time directive.the problem was though,in order to establish such a breach, they wanted me to do their job for them by chasing these knutts around,and taking photographs of them

  145. Paudie

    boh thats another way to telling you that they dont care what the drivers do when off duty. as long as they turn up for shift, and take a bus out. does not matter if they can barely keep their eyes open when starting the shift. what will they be like 10 hours later getting out of the bus, and into a taxi. its crazy carry on. innocent people will die.

  146. john m

    Paudie there has been no restriction on bus drivers driving taxies in the past .So can you give us any incident of billions of passengers being in accidents .Its when you sensationalize an issue with no proof that you make it easier for them to make you look stupit.

  147. Paudie

    it will happen eventually with some part time scab. might be a bus driver, might be a factory worker.but lack of sleep will cost some innocent person their life.

  148. Paudie

    what prime time exposed about that guy kennedy was really scarey. if dublin bus cannot take action after seeing that programme, then we may as well give up.

  149. bohemian boy

    paudie they told me they can only take action based on definite proof. they are afraid of their shit to go head to head with the unions on this one,they have to wait till somebody is killed for justifiable grounds for action

  150. Paudie

    boh if a prime time special is not enough proof for them, then just what do they want. that guy was on camera driving his taxi, just after finishing his bus shift. as you say, they are scared of the unions, so all will be fine, until someone like kennedy kills an innocent person. if this happens, the management in dublin bus should face manslaughter charges.

  151. john m

    @BB Kelly has taken care of the double jobbing drivers by making their employer responsible .The whole taxi bill was a bottle of smoke .Its sole purpose was to correct the bad impression of the industry that was portrayed in the Prime time light entertainment show on national television .People want to be able to get a cab when and where they need one .The government want cabs as they are totally unsubsidised .Now faced with the supply and demand conundrum.As long as drivers can make a living they will drive .If they cant they will give up or seek apart time jobs to compliment their taxi earnings .This battle was fought in the high court and drivers won the right to get a licence .My concern is that the only way left for the taxiwhatsit to reduce the fleet if they agree with the Indecon figure for oversupply is to increase the fees they charge drivers to operate .They have introduced a 9 year rule which imposes extra costs on an operator .They have increased the licence fee .Extra suitability for older cars and I know that Dublin Corporation have a blueprint for the introduction of a congestion charge that we might not be exempt from and there is also a proposal to charge for on street parking throughout the Capital .Parking charges already apply in some areas .Its hard to run a transport business without parking .

    Paudie you must understand if ! a driver holds a licence and drives a licenced taxi in an area where he holds a licence and claims the dole .He is not an illegal driver he has all the required documents .He may be claiming the dole illegally .That is a social welfare issue and has nothing to do with the taxi industry .The new App that does not work was introduced to deal with that issue

  152. Paudie

    don’t know how a person can drive a taxi, and claim dole. surely dsp would cop that fairly quickly. as for that app, its a load of crap just like the door stickers. neither will have any impact on the business. ban the double jobbers, and ban the rental market. that would be a step in the right direction.

  153. bohemian boy

    dont think john m is right about the ones claiming the dole.just for the hell of it,i rang the dole to fin d out about claiming and i was told in order to do so , i must surrender everything to do with my taxi to the carriage office, including my licence

  154. Paudie

    boh he surely means the ones who are renting cars, and operating illegaly. trading in cash all the way, and paying no tax. some of them dont even officially exist in this country. you know the ones i mean.

  155. ger

    A good few of our own scammers are claiming the dole and driving taxis. the rental market of course. thats where the rot is. they are the drivers that need to be fooked out of the industry. they are worse than the double jobbers.

  156. bohemian boy

    lads i know fianna fail made a boll.x of the industry,but the one good good proposal made by frank fahey, was to do away with the rental sector altogether,and guess who opposed it ? thats right taxi drivers themselves

  157. Paudie

    total ban would have very positive impact on the business. far less cars out there, especially at the weekends when full time drivers should be able to make a few euros.

  158. bohemian boy

    it would be a great thing for the rest of us ordinary plebs, if the leaders of the different rep bodies got together with a view to establishing one strong representitive group going forward. i really believe we would be a match for any government,or government agency. they would fear the power of the taxi industry.look how the bus men got them to the table. every full time committed taxi driver in the country not only has a right to insist on this,but you have a duty to do it.if you really care about your industry, and your livlihoods,then tell your leaders this is what you want. the foundations have already been laid with the establishment of the taxi allience of ireland,now its up to you,and i to help consolidate this by telling your rep body to get involved. people at the top would have to fight for their full time jobs,a national excucivie committie,branch offices throughout the country,etc i tell you this can,and will work.,but we need to motovate our leaders. remember a union is only as strong as its members. lets show this government,and nta just how strong we can be with well thought out strageties. tell your leaders they have your full support to do whatever is nessesary to bring about the change we all deserve.let them know they are not alone in this battle.we have taken to much shite for to long. they will probably wait and see what impact the bill will have on the industry when passed,but they must be let know if its not to our satisfaction then they a strong mandate from us to take whatever action they deem nessesary

  159. Rat Catcher

    The Alliance is a load of bollix. Just look at the top table. An army pensioner, a market trader and a confidence trickster.

    You should read the MABS brochure BB. It was endorsed by CTA and the Alliance. In fact, CTAs Mick Fitz was instrumental in it’s publication. That sets out how to go about claiming welfare while driving your cab. Minister Kelly stated that up to 50% of taxi drivers claim welfare legitimately. The Minister for Social Protection confirmed that there is no need to surrender any licences in response to a question up above in the Dail. Roy published the Q & A on Spookies forum as far as I recall. This is one, very very very very very rare, occasion on which John hasn’t got it arse about face.

    The problems created within that MABS brochure are very significant in trying to deal with double jobbers. Minister Kelly has stated on several occasions that he cannot define working hours never mind do anything to restrict them.

    As far as protest goes, I’ve been there and done that. You can’t just blame the authorities for the mess the trade is in, the reps have proved wholly inept in their input. There is no point in protesting for the sake of protest and very little chance of finding much common ground between many drivers. Those on welfare want to protect that so won’t agree to arguing against the MABS definition of working hours. The double jobbers won’t agree to outlawing double jobbers. The nn won’t agree to tougher vetting procedures, etc. Going on past performance consultation with drivers/reps has only ever served to create more problems than it’s solved.

    I’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that it is what it is. If ya can make a few notes well and good, if not find something else if you can.

  160. Rat Catcher

    BTW BB, I love the way you describe yourself as an ordinary pleb. Ya’ve more brains in your small toenail than those you look to for leadership. There are plenty of decent well intentioned men there (even if they have pensions or market stalls to fall back on) but they’re not capable of negotiation. For the most part they struggle to understand even the most basic regulations applicable to the trade.

  161. bohemian boy

    rat im sure there is a compliment in there somewhere in your last comments,however i have asked you many times why you,yourself dont become involved with one of the rep bodies.? you have a lot to offer and i personally think your imput would be better applied to helping out,rather then slagging off the committed members of the tai

  162. bohemian boy

    stephen i would respectfully request you to allow the tai to establish itself before you pass judgement on it. i dont know to whom you refer when you talk about an army pensioner, a market trader,or a confidence trickster.i do however,know that there are a lot of committed people at the top table,people who have travelled,and who continue to travel [next meeting in athlone in 3 weekls time] ,and give of their own time,and expense in support of their trying to secure conditions that are better then they currently enjoy.please dont influnce drivers into slagging off the tai,this is our best chance for unity,and i sincerely hope that some day ttnh will be a part of the tai. i personnally have huge respect for ttnh,and i look forward to the day when we will all go forward together as one. i do not believe these bridges cannot be built,because each rep body has shown their commitement to their respective members which is above reproach in my opinion

  163. john m

    The rat has very close contacts with many on the alliance Wilbur Shaw and Andy Mc Mahon have both been advised by the rodent .I remember him giving them his insights the night they blocked O Connell Street.

  164. cabbus

    i dont know who that paudie is but saying getting rid of the rental market will cost me my livehood as i pay my taxs every and am legit in every way so why does he want me to lose my living mayb he dosent pay his tax and claims the social

  165. bohemian boy

    cabbus i totally agree with puudie,i to would like to see the abolition of the rental market.having said that i dont wish to see you,or anyone else loose their livlihood but you must agree that it is rotten to the if there were to be a properly regulated rental market,run by a government agency,with all up front legitimate legal procedures applied then that would be different. at the moment the rental market is in total disarray.also i believe all ancillary services should be run by a government appointed agency including the instillation of meters,roof signs,etc etc while i can certainly understand your position as regards your livlihood,you must also accept legitimate drivers are loosing a huge amount of work to the illegal operators mostly from the rental market

  166. Paudie

    cabbus i pay my tax, and have my tax clearance certs to prove. most abuse in the taxi biz today occurs in the rental market, and you know that. its a cesspit of illegals who have the standards dragged down to an all time low. plates are selling for as little as 1,500 euros, who why not invest if you are serious about the taxi biz. you are probably paying silly money to rent off some toerag.

  167. cabbus

    my 6 seater gave up at xmas i cud niot get a loan so what am i 2 do? i cant get the dole as i am taxing 4 the last 25 yrs ? sit down and die r rent no contest rent when i started 25 yrs ago i cosied whats that but renting since dereg a lot of u wud not b in this game so dont have a go at me 4 renting what do u think cosing was renting renting said it 2 times

  168. cabbus

    talking about double jobbing its been going on 4 years and years taxi unions messed up this game and i have diginigy i dont owe any bank ect 4 a car i pay my rent every week worry free from maintance anything wrong 1 phone call fixed and i get it back fixed when i started this game i cud not get insurance b cause i was not in the union so i had to give 20 pound 2 the usher twat 4 a card 2 say i was in the union the guy i cosied 4 just worked the weekend then monday 2 friday he worked his real job u will never get rid of renters r double jobbers so there of my chest at last

  169. bohemian boy

    cabbus it was ALWAYS wrong in my opinion that john usser,tommy gorman,etc etc decided who could work,and who could not.i would never have got insurance because i am head strong and would NEVER submit to the type of blackmail people like you were subjected to by these people. the only thing i can compare it to was years ago on the docks.if you didnt buy drink all night for the stevedors ,you did not work on the docks.thank god we have moved away from that type of enviornment with the lads who are our reps these days.

  170. chester

    I don’t know how you lot can sit there and mock a driver who has fallen through the net this industry is in shite and we all know it perhaps if we actually got of our arses and out of our cars to prevent taxis from plying for hire illegally then cabbus might not be in the situation he is today so if anyone wants to protest and prevent this sort of thing then contact Roy for my email address or phone number and perhaps we can between us come up with something. Just remember we are all just one snap off a timing belt away from being just like cabbus.

  171. Paudie

    and its in shite because of the rental market. thats where the number one problem is. too many illegals renting cars off cowboys who only care about money. ban the rental market and you might help solve the illegal rank problem. its not our duty to get out of cars to challenge these vermin, that’s what gardai and nta staff are paid for.

  172. chester

    Thanks ger
    But now we need rat catcher, we need john M, we need Bo Boy, we need cabbus, we need paudie , and we need flybye come on lads time to make a stand lets do it !!!

  173. john m

    Chester…Drivers need to understand the reality of this industry .They wont like it but .The day they won the right to get a licence in the high court they lost any control over the industry.Rental is legally allowed as anybody can get a plate licence and put it on a suitable vehicle.That vehicle is now a business asset and is covered by commercial law just like house rental or shop rental .It is the private property of the named owner and he can do what he likes with it as long as it is within the rules .This is never ever going to change .I read somewhere that Frank Fahey proposed the end of rental .It must of been close to election time .It cannot be done and the powere that be dont want it.There is also no restriction on anybody having two jobs or collecting a pension and working or in many cases receiving welfare and working .I have talked with the Rat in the past about this and there is very little that we can do.The new taxi bill is just wallpaper to cover over the cracks that were exposed on the light entertainment programme Prime Time on national television..It is and always was a PR exercise or as I like to call it a bottle of smoke .If you look back on the TV programme all the issues raised have been wall papered over .Back handersfor testers have been done away with by having two separate tests .Illegal rental has been dealt with by the app,duplicate cars now have abig sticker .Illegal rankers can now be fined and there is an 70% increase the number of enforcers .There was a chance to do something but your reps all had different sectionsof the industry to represent .Some wanted to protect renters and others wanted to protect their airport members and others wanted to look after dispatchers .The common denominator was to keep standards low and investment to a minimum .Everybody agreed with that .The opportunity for representatives to unite drivers and form a common policy was just after dereg but that opportunity was not taken.The taxiwhatsit recognise that they lost control of the situation and if they accept the Indecon findings on over supply then they must find new tools to reduce the fleet.So far by stealth they have set about reducing the fleet by increased costs .The 9 year rule .Increased psv licence renewal I would suspect that renewal will be reduced to every two years soon while the cost remains the same .I have suggested that if a congestion charge is introduced that we might not be exempt after all we are not exempt from toll charges and tunnell charges .This industry has been undermined by changes in transport provision .Since dereg we have the Luas and the rent a bike and now go car .There is also a suggestion that Dublin Corporation will charge for on street parking in front of your own home .The future for this industry is in the balance .The cost of doing business will out weigh the benefit and drivers will leave .if enough operators leave then the remainder may get a living wage or the alternative is that the job will become part time and drivers will have other incomes .If you want my honest opinion I think the second option will win out .There are too many other transport options available to travellers .A taxi will only be an option when none of the others are available .Fuel prices are also going to have a huge impact on the industry in future .It is going to become to expensive to just cruise for fares .This will force drivers to join dispatchers who will buy up rankspaces around pubs clubs and hotels and engage in work capture for their aligned drivers .The future for the industry is drivers will join dispatchers or work the port .Independent road cruisers will just work the weekends in the big cities .The two options join a dispatcher or get another source of income and work part time when there is work .

  174. Rat Catcher

    There’s a lot of topics covered since my last contribution.

    There certainly is a compliment in there BB. You make considerable efforts on behalf of drivers. Your lobbying of organisations and companies undoubtedly focuses attention within the same towards their employees double jobbing activities and, at the very least, causes them to consider the potential dangers. Similarly your lobbying of politicians and the regulatory authorities gives them an insight into the problems at the coalface.

  175. Rat Catcher

    The possibility of getting any significant number of drivers to agree to a coherent set of policies is extremely remote in any event. Your contributions here suggest that you don’t agree with MABS advertising the trade as a source of pocket money for welfare recipients or defining taxi drivers’ working hours as hours engaged with clients. Obviously these are core CTA policies. CTA also lobbied for lowering the vetting standard to match the security trade, it’s hard to imagine you agree with that unless there is a very significant gap between what you type here and your true beliefs, a possibility I don’t entirely discount as many see blogs and fora as propaganda tools. Anyway my point is, even in a 3/4 man association there are irreconcilable differences of opinion so what chance is there of even 20 or 30 men agreeing a set of policies?

  176. Rat Catcher

    I have, however, contributed to submissions whenever the authorities have invited the same and I continue to contribute to a small but effective group that engages in various lobbying activities. In that regard I would note TD’s contribution which is in many respects mirrors your own efforts.

    Taxi rental suits many drivers, Cabbus being a good example. Minister Kelly stipulated the need to accommodate men that cannot afford cars within the trade. We must appreciate the convenience of one weekly payment for a guaranteed interruption free service particularly as rents are relatively low in the current economic climate. The TfI app, despite it flaws which are many, has given us unprecedented access to the MPOs businesses. Over on, for example, we publish highly accurate occupancy rates and we can produce lists of any fleet’s drivers. The point here is that if we can do it Revenue can do it so it’s becoming increasingly difficult for any driver to operate under the radar.

    The fact that you drive a taxi (regardless of length of service) does not preclude you from claiming welfare. You are entitled to claim means tested Jobseekers Allowance regardless. Your entire income and that of your household will have a bearing on your claim. In fact, you can claim Jobseekers Allowance in addition to driving your taxi if you satisfy the means test. See the MABS brochure or contact Jerry Brennan for details.

    The arrangements between insurance companies (well at the time Axa) and the unions was not as rigid as many believe. If you stood your ground Axa backed down, I can say that from personal experience.

  177. Rat Catcher

    Sorry for breaking up my post, I’m having trouble submitting it, the system won’t accept one paragraph, not sure why but basically in the omitted paragraph I’m just grumbling about TTNH and TAI endorsing commercial dispatch firms, my suggestion being that the fast buck always takes precedence over policy.

  178. ecos64

    Slightly off topic ,does anybody know what the story is with rickshaw “TAXIS” .These things are all over the place ,breaking every traffic regulation, and mopping up a ton of 10++++ euro jobs.I wonder what the NTA view on these carriages is,not to mention Garda, Revenue,and Dept Social Welfare.

  179. ger

    Nothing will happen with the rickshaws until there is a fatal accident. And that day is on the way. Most of them have no lights. ive seen garda cars wait until its safe to overtake these muppets that have no lights on them. its an irish thing, wait until somebody gets killed, then act. mark my words. the NTA dont want to know. no money in it for them. fooking tosspots.

  180. ger

    Did i just post a racist comment about the irish? Or just the truth? Nothing to do with “skin colour” just the truth. a fatal accident is on the way with those fooking rickshaws.

  181. Rat Catcher

    According to the app Ebbs/Intercity currently have 67 drivers associated with it’s 113 taxis, 5 of which are lapsed. That does represent a lower than average occupancy rate. Interesting those fleet operators that have received attention from Revenue and/or the media tend to have occupancy rates significantly above average. My point being that such statistics would no be lost on Revenue. If you can catalogue data which may suggest systematic omissions I’d suggest reporting the same to Revenue as well as NTA. Obviously, I’m making no allegations here, Ebbs rent is higher than average so it probably stand to reason that occupancy should reflect that.

    Of course the system isn’t perfect. We live in Ireland, there will always be some degree of circumvention and the app/driver register is in it’s infancy. We must, however, acknowledge that the system goes a very long way to encouraging/enforcing compliance within the rental sector.

    Ebbs Driver Report:


  182. Rat Catcher

    Just an after though on Ebbs in particular. The 820 app is one of the most popular apps on the market. The kids that order by app probably have a higher propensity to check their driver against the TfI app than most clients so I would suggest that Ebbs/Intercity drivers are probably the most checked drivers in the country. As such one would imagine any policy of systematic omission would come to light quite quickly.

  183. Rat Catcher

    A lot of drivers in general don’t speak Irish, even the Irish ones! As far as fleets go, some fleets are entirely nn, needless to say they are nn owned fleets. Of Irish owned fleets, there are some that only employ Irish drivers. Of the fleets that don’t discriminate (at least not entirely) on racial grounds I think Brendan Spearing has the highest rate of nn with Phyllis Murphy having the lowest.

  184. cabbus

    paudie can u not read i had my own plate since dereg last year was the last straw with maintence over 5000e paid out on my my own plate what makes u think i have not had my badge 25 yrs i can prove it it is c41// but ur a disbleaving twat and i know that hope the time dosent come when ur renting and u get someone like my guy who dont charge me a lot of dosh u buy a new car tied into a loan 4 3yrs r more about 400 500 e a month irent 120e a week work out the figures and i only have insurance u have 2 keep urs on the road or no wages

  185. Paudie

    you can call me a twat or anything you like. one thing will never change, and thats my opinion of the rental market. its a cesspit of illegal drivers. and it has to be banned completely for standards in the industry to improve.

  186. cabbus

    i c legal drivers scruuffy cars smelly dont care 4 other drivers get rid of them scumbags the ones that work the port that give the punters going 2 swords etc griff swearing that wud b a start 2 getting the no down but it wil never happen so up yours whats ur badge no in the game a couple years ye

  187. Rat Catcher

    My utopia would be realised if they just took back ever licence issued, driving or vehicle, since deregulation and reformed Bertie’s Forum but I have to reluctantly accept that that isn’t going to happen.

    The problem is every driver wants everything his own way. That’s why we end up with ludicrous and contradictory proposals from those that purport to represent drivers. The authorities are charged with the unenviable task of trying to make sense of it all. The best (i.e. the most ridiculous) example I can think of off the top of my head was in a document written for TDFC where it proposed that all taxis should be black, white, blue, wine or red… obviously there were 5 contributors to that nonsense!

  188. cabbus

    ha ha paudie ur just s fooking joke cant answer anything so as ur kind always do attack the person so we all know ur a dickheadand u call ur self a man another joke

  189. bohemian boy

    lads im just back from belfast.just took up the laptop hoping to read some good comments about the industry, i even hoped there might have been some constructive words shared among my colleagues,but what do i read ? insults left,right,and centre,so much for unity

  190. True Dub

    Dont be too depressed BB sure didnt Rats give you a compliment, he even gave me one, (now I think about that I am starting to get worried)

  191. True Dub

    Yeah getting a compliment from Rats does give you a warm clammy sweaty uneasy feeling, hey Rats you better say something nasty about me to make me feel better

  192. bohemian boy

    lads something that i believe is much more urgent then most of the other issues is the position of INDEPENDENTS,as opposed to radio,and app all know my views on radio companys,i hate them with a passion because they treat their EMPLOYERS [the drivers] as if the DRIVERS were their employees. however with that said,i believe it would be imprudent for independents to wait any longer before making their voices heard . we need to let the dept of transport,the nta, and the minister know we will NOT be coearced into joining with these gangsters. to that end i propose going around the ranks to all independents to sign a form to that effect

  193. bohemian boy

    its no secret that they want us aligned to these gangsters,certainly kathleen doyle has made a statement to that effect in the passed and although she would not be in a position to force the issue now,considering her job within the nta, i believe she still carrys influence with the minister who shares her view.its up to all independents everywhere to oppose [IN ADVANCE] any attempt to bring about a situation where noel ebbs,vinny kearns,or antony,or peter kelly will be telling you what to wear,how much to charge ,and taking disiplinary action against you for giving back heavy discounted work which THEY negotiated on YOUR behalf. it would suit better if these people done what they should be doing by stopping work going out the back door to the base controllers cronies.the absolute cheek of these towrags to treat drivers in such a way defies belief. if they want involve themselves in the business of a SELF EMPLOYED taxi driver to that extent,then surely the nta should also make them responsible for checking the credentials of every driver who uses their radio illegal operators,tax compliant drivers,hours worked by stamp 2 chinese students,etc etc

  194. john m

    I posted my view of the future yesterday but it has not yet been moderated .Roy is away .I suggest two outcomes .I hope Roy posts it.

  195. bohemian boy

    i have already checked with the competition authority as regards the position,and they agree that they cannot make us join the gangsters.but the problem is they make rules that greatly favour radio companies,over independents already. by using such a stratgety they may see this as a way of freezing us out,and isolating us altogether,this is why i believe we should be ready as a unit to meet any such challenge.we need to orginize now before its to late. the nta,and ctr before them have always used a divide and conquer to achieve their aims,we must be ready for way of doing this is to get in the ears of present radio company drivers and fill their heads with shite that there will be no work for them if this happens,scare them with this kind of talk,and get them to rebel to their radio company other words get them to do our jobs for us by protesting to ebbs etc that if he takes on any more drivers then he can have his radio back.

  196. john m

    Two scenarios .The dispatchers buy up clubs and pubs and hotels all will be allowed by changing the roadtraffic act .Now you have legal work capture .So if you want to work especially days you have to join a dispatcher .Or else get another source of income and drive part time .Fining drivers for illegal ranking just persecutes drivers who cannot rand off street.The big winners are the dispatchers .their reps done good .Indecon says that there is oversupply so expect big increase in licence fees to reduce numbers .We already got the 9 year which means it costs more money to go to work.The 250 licence might become a two year licence but still cost the same .They will say it will improve tax compliance and reduce illegal operators .Another one of their changes that we will pay for.

  197. john m

    Yes ..They will buy up the right to rank outside in the carpark.This will let them capture the work before it hits the streets.The road traffic act 1961 did not allow this but that will be changed.there was a legal annomoly .the carpark of most pubs clubs or shopping centres are rateable which means that the owners are liable to pay a commercial rate to the local authority .As such they can conduct any commercial activity they like .So the road traffic act infringes on their commercial rights .The road traffic act will be changed to allow this practice .BB has asked Eddie Fullerton to act against this practice and he has refused .If the taxiwhatsit took a court case against a hotel or pub for allowing a company to provide a taxi service for their customers on their premises they would lose .

  198. Rat Catcher

    The fact that there’s not very many alternatives to subscribing to commercial firms is without doubt the main failing of those that purport to represent drivers. TTnH and TAI have both endorsed commercial dispatch firms while offering no support to driver cooperatives. The fast buck always wins out over any “cause”.

  199. Rat Catcher

    Did you use bold language in the post that’s awaiting moderation erm?
    I think the paragraph of my post that was rejected yesterday might have referred to Jerry Brennan as a slippery vagina (using the common slang term for vagina).

  200. Rat Catcher

    The RTA doesn’t preclude private ranks. Such ranks do, however, contravene bye-laws within Dublin City Council’s administrative area hence the difference between the Burlington and Bewleys.

  201. john m

    Rodent i asked a councillor about restrictions on ranking and he said that the grounds of a hotel or club would be rateable on a commercial basis .So the council would have no objection to it being used by the owner to provide a rank for their customers its a simple commercial decision made by the property owner.I did not use any profanity or abusive terminology in my post .I usually try to disperse my message by using the exuberance of my verbosity and refrain from profanity .I must say I enjoyed your vulva refrence .

  202. john m

    84.—(1) The Commissioner may, with the consent of the Minister and after consultation with the local authority concerned, make bye-laws in respect of any specified area for all or any of the following purposes:

    (a) appointing the places (in this Act referred to as appointed stands) in public roads in the area at which street service vehicles may stand for hire;

    (b) fixing the maximum number of street service vehicles which may stand for hire at any one time at any particular appointed stand;

    (c) prohibiting street service vehicles from standing for hire at places in public roads in the area which are not appointed stands;

    (d) regulating and controlling the use of appointed stands by street service vehicles.

    (2) The Commissioner, with the consent of the Minister, may make, in respect of any specified area temporary rules for all or any of the purposes specified in subsection (1) of this section.

    (3) The following provisions shall have effect in relation to temporary rules under this section in respect of an area:

    (a) the rules shall come into operation on a specified day not earlier than one week after the making of the rules;

    (b) during that week the Commissioner shall give, in relation to the rules, such notice as may be prescribed;

    (c) the rules shall have effect, unless they are sooner revoked, for the period of one year beginning on the day on which they come into operation;

    (d) the rules shall operate in lieu of such (if any) corresponding bye-laws under this section as may be in force in respect of the area.

    (4) Different bye-laws or rules may be made under this section in respect of different circumstances.

    (5) A driver of a street service vehicle who contravenes a bye-law or rule under this section and, if such driver is not the owner of the vehicle, such owner shall each be guilty of an offence.

    (6) Where a person charged with an offence under this section is the owner of the vehicle, it shall be a good defence to the charge for him to show that the vehicle was being used on the occasion in question by another person and that such use was unauthorised

    The opening line says they CAN if they want SDCC dont want they allow ranking in the Square ,Plaza and old Mill.

  203. john m

    Rodent I believe Mr Fullerton may of missunderstood this as he wrote out to certain hotels informing them that ranking was not allowed on their premises .I know Mr Kearns removed his drivers from the forcourt of the 4 seasons .By removing any restriction or planning request .you remove the possibility of any misunderstanding and different rules by different councils .A nice little victory for the dispatchers .Their reps done good.

  204. bohemian boy

    rat,john, i was already on to dcc some weeks ago about this illegal parking in hotel grounds.they say it is a matter for the nta,and nothing to do with them.on that basis i sent gerry murphy a detailed email regarding this,i also told him that in spite of a comprehensive list of hotels,and radio companys ,eddie fullerton has failed to act .

  205. Rat Catcher

    The opening line states “may” make “bye-laws” “after consultation with the local authority “. Study that line carefully.

    The Act does not preclude private ranks. Bye-laws are required to do that, as is the case within Dublin City Council’s administrative area.

  206. Rat Catcher

    NTA did take some action at Dublin hotels a couple of years back as far as I recall. Fullerton even wrote a strongly worded letter in at least one case.

  207. john m

    Rodent the word MAY is nice but power hungry civil servants read may as CAN .That will be removed .The dispatchers reps done good .

  208. Rat Catcher

    The new Taxi Regulation Act is likely to provide for Hackney Ranks on private property to accommodate the new Local Area Hackneys.

  209. Rat Catcher

    I don’t think they’ll do that. The bye-laws that restrict private ranks up above in Dublin will probably remain. It’s unlikely that Local Area Hackney Licences will be available for the city.

  210. john m

    The dispatchers have many friends on the TAC .By simply altering the requirement they can allow hoteliers who are represented on the TAC get a few notes for the back pocket .If the law is ammended it applies throughout the state .

  211. bohemian boy

    john your theory that the dispatchers will buy up all available pub,and club,and hotel space is all very well,but you are forgetting one thing,at the rate hailo,and the other apps are winning the war against these sc,mbag radio companies,youll be lucky if there are any of the towrags left to buy this space,and even if there were some left, would they be foolish enough to make such a large investment in the face of such fierce competition from the apps ?

  212. Rat Catcher

    Scumbag app companies -vs- Scumbag radio companies. It’s difficult to know which to hate most. Both dictate terms to the drivers that work for them and the drivers do what they are told. The app firms employ a lot more part-time scumbags and nn scumbags so maybe that should be the deciding factor?

  213. Frank

    No offence to any driver who works for Hailo, but I will not give the customer €2 off every trip, then a discount on top of that for credit cards, those Jew boys in London knew what they were doing when they targeted the Micks.

  214. sclass

    I must agree Frank the no pickup sticks in my craw.A big mistake on Hailos part .Most of the jobs are 2/3k away and then no pickup A load of meboll@x.

  215. Paudie

    a few jobs from hailo, or anywhere, on a quiet day or night, cannot be refused. the way things are gone, i am not concerned about the call out, very few people will pay it now. most people still give some tip, no matter how small, and that makes up for no call out. if we have bums on seats, we are doing ok.

  216. Frank

    2 quid is 20% off a €10 fare, add the C/C charge and you’re in the 33% overall area, still if you could afford those discounts, stick with Hailo, it’s just that the feedback I’m getting is they’re little more than bus fares, in the €7/10 bracket, but sure each to their own.

  217. Paudie

    Frank i am not with hailo, i work on my own. have a few phone customers, and dependendent on rank/street work after that. i was just making a point that any few extra bob that can be got must surely be welcome. things have never been worse for us, and no sign of any improvement in the short term at least. but lets remember the old saying about half a loaf.

  218. john m

    Frank you probably have a phone by downloading Hailo and only switching it on when you are cruising .You should be able to pick up jobs that you would not have any chance of getting .If you only got one a week it should cover the cost of your phone .

  219. Rat Catcher

    Hailo is just another commercial dispatch operator, a foreign one at that. For the most part our own operate fixed fee subscriptions which serves to deter double jobbers at least. A lot of drivers are very happy to give the discounts and pay the fees. Commercial firms require profits (an extremely large one in the case of Hailo). That profit has to come out of drivers’ pockets.

    It’s not good enough to say that drivers should be able to find their own work BB. There has always been a market for callouts and always will be. There’s no point to campaigning/petitioning against app/wireless drivers unless you have a viable alternative to offer them. The unions that you promote are happy to endorse commercial firms. If they or drivers had any sense we would have a lot more co-ops. Modern technology virtually eliminates dispatch running costs, that’s something that should be capitalised on by the unions.

  220. john m

    Rodent I asked were there any WAT drivers interested in joining up with the app you developed that you showed me and nobody was interested .I know you had held informal talks with interested parties who would of used WATs regulary .Drivers should of developed their own app as a co operative .I held informal discussion with interested people and hilited possible changes to the road traffic act that might allow off street ranking .They should of availed of the early warning to develope a strategy to amass as many ranking opportunities as possible and then developed an app.Instead of rep bodies we should of tried to form a business association that was respected throughout the City who would of been welcomed into premises .Legal medical and money advise and tax and accountancy services should all be supplied .If we were strong enough then we could possibly get a few members onto different councils and local authorities and bypass the TAC which is hand picked by the Minister to do his bidding.

  221. Rat Catcher

    Shoulda, woulda, coulda erm.

    The Road Traffic Act allows off street ranking so there are no changes required there. There are, however, bye-laws within Dublin City Council’s administrative area that prevent such ranks in the absence of appropriate planning permission.

    I don’t think you are strong enough to secure seats on councils.

    I think BB has the right idea, we need UNITY. We need to unite against:
    radio scum
    app scum
    nn scum
    double jobbing scum
    married scum
    renting scum
    informal ranking scum

    The list of those we need to exclude from our united front does appear to be quite long. It may be easier just to unite against post-deregulation scum?

  222. bohemian boy

    rat your sarcasim is beyond belief . i do not wish to exclude anybody when i promote unity,all i want is for everybody to play by the rules so that we all have an equal chance to make a living.though i would not mind seeing the exclusion of double jobbers

  223. Rat Catcher

    I don’t agree with giving the nn an equal chance to make a living. Ms. Doyle told customers that they have the right to discriminate. The most common reason for customers exercising discretion in selecting taxis is on the basis of driver skin colour. It makes perfect business sense to me that Irish drivers should exploit whatever prejudices exist to their own ends. So can we at least exclude nn and double jobbers? Your petitioning against app/radio firms should be sufficient to exclude drivers that subscribe to such services. A similar strategy could be employed to keep the renting scum out. Those that use informal ranks ought to be sufficiently discouraged by calls for enforcement targeted at that activity.

    I do think it would be more straightforward to just group them all together under the banner of post-deregulation scum. We didn’t have the problems that exist now (well, ok, there was renting, double jobbing and informal ranking but to a lesser extent) before Harney, Ahern and Molloy opened up the trade to any unemployable waster with a ton to invest. If your computer gets a virus ya roll it back to the point at which it last worked adequately. Rolling the taxi trade needs to be rolled back to 1999 would get rid of most of the riff raff.

  224. Rat Catcher

    No but I have rented in the past and would do so again if necessary. However, Mrs. Catcher earns a fairly decent wage and I get other work from time to time so I’d have to exclude myself as married scum and/or double jobbing scum. I suppose I was one of the worst offenders as far as informal ranking goes too so enforcement in that area wouldn’t suit me unless it was restricted to Dublin city. We’re talking about improving the trade here. Ya can’t get into tolerating this, that or the other because it suits this person, that person or the other person or ya’ll end up with nonsense like the black, white, blue, red or wine car provision written for TDFC.

  225. bohemian boy

    This is a reply received from Jerry Murphy, chief executive officer of the National Transport Authority :
    Dear Paul,

    I refer to your most recent contact which has been received and noted by the Chief Executive, who in turn has directed me to reply as follows.

    As referred to in previous replies, the Authority is actively reviewing issues related to plying and standing for hire. In line with this, the Authority proposes to issue an update to existing guidance to the hotel sector on the regulatory regime as it applies to small public service vehicles. Your comments below will be considered in this regard.

    The Authority is also available at any time to engage with any individual hotel seeking assistance or clarification on any such matter.

    Finally, the compliance team continues to review all information supplied by industry members and actively incorporates same into scheduling follow-up inspections on a nationwide basis.

    I trust this addresses your query below.

    Yours sincerely,

    Jill Barry

    National Transport Authority

  226. Rat Catcher

    I’m not renting from Ken or anyone else. I would, therefore, appreciate you clarifying that with Ken and posting an appropriate correction here, thanks.

    I’m trying to remember the last time I rented from Ken. I think it was for a couple of weeks 2/3 years ago, around the time we done a slow drive around the city.

  227. Rat Catcher

    It is to do with you. You are making up lies or you are being used to spread lies for someone else. Now, I’ll ask you again, withdraw that allegation. It is a lie.

  228. Rat Catcher

    Indeed erm. I await his apology. He did say that he’d tell Ken that he (Ken) made a mistake but then back tracked on that offer. The fact is Ken made no mistake. Ken knows I’m not renting from him and didn’t tell anyone that I am. All the evidence at this stage suggests that Paul himself is responsible for making the story up but I guess it’s only fair to allow him adequate time to clear the matter up.

  229. Rat Catcher

    A lot of drivers would know Ken. He’s a decent enough bloke, gave me a good deal last time I used one of his motors which, as I said was for a couple of weeks over 2 years ago. He’s certainly not a liar so Paul didn’t hear it from him.

  230. bohemian boy

    jeez rat, your fethers are easly ruffled,im surprised,but having said that, my comments[which i stand over] are a lot less offensive then those you continue to post about gerry brennan dont you think ?

  231. bohemian boy

    anyway stephen i am really not interested in engaging in a war of words with you on this are quite wrong though,when you say it did not come from the afore mentioned mr o brien,i had him as a customer a few weeks ago,and he was going on about how nearly on this forum who rents,does so from him. you included

  232. john m

    If the Rodent is renting and he is not on the app .Then BB you must report this Ken person .Give Mr Fullerton all the information and swear an affidavid that way you can possibly rid the industry of this renter who must be renting illegally and that scoundrel THE RODENT.

  233. Rat Catcher

    You’re posting lies Paul. How can you stand over lies? I’m not renting any taxi, that’s a fact.

    Jerry Brennan is a lying cheating scumbag, that’s a fact and one that I stand over.

    Now, do you stand over this comment

    # bohemian boyon 17 Aug 2013 at 12:10 pm
    jeez rat ken o brien reckons yar renting from him,i better tell him yar not,that he made a mistake

    Assuming you do, go and tell Ken and come back and tell us who made the mistake. My feathers are not easily ruffled but I don’t post lies about you or your business and I don’t appreciate you or anyone else lying about me or my business. If I was renting from Ken I’d have no problem with anyone knowing that. I have one so in the past and would do so in the future.

    I’ve given you every opportunity to apologise online and put the matter to bed and you refuse to do so. I don’t understand why, please explain?

  234. Rat Catcher

    Maybe Ken was talking about drivers that have rented from him at one time or another? As I said I have, the last time being for a couple of weeks over 2 years ago. The are a few (ex) contributors to Spookie’s forum who currently rent from Ken but I don’t.

  235. john m

    Rodent if you are BB will have you .I know your not renting I even offered you mine while I was on holiday .I dont know what the agenda is .

  236. Rat Catcher

    An offer for which I was grateful but declined. I have to be honest and say I’d rather rent than borrow. Any time I borrow a motor I’m always worried that something will go wrong with it or I’ll have a bang or something like that.

  237. bohemian boy

    jesus rat,will ya lighten up.we all know the money was just resting in your account.although i wil say this to you,you are the biggest wind up merchant on the god damn forum yourself,and when someone winds you up you react by going balistic.look at the comments you posted about me just today for instence,trying to make out that i promote unity,yet i want to ban every group that drive a taxi,cop on for gods sake

  238. True Dub

    No never watched Fr Ted moronic nonsense, the comment you made could be interpreted in several ways and most of them negative

    As for Mr Murphy’s comments “I have more important things on my mind at the moment so I kicked this sh1te down to some pleb”, the pleb replies to you and says “we will inform the hotels that for the moment keep your powder dry you will be legally able to rip off taxi drivers in the very near future so dont annoy anyone for the moment”
    now I have answered your query so be quiet
    Yours etc Pleb NTA

    You are asking the wrong people the right question
    Why not contact the Hotel Fed rep on the advisory committee and ask the Hotel Feds official position on the issue, then follow that up by explain that hotels or individual employees of hotels demanding or receiving financial inducements from taxi dispatch companies is illegal whether taxi’s ply for hire on hotel grounds or not.

  239. john m

    Rodent the lad rattled your cage .Everybody knows you wouldnt put in the hours to cover the rent .To busy fleecing muppets with on line poker .

  240. True Dub

    BB on second reading my comment does read sarcastic towards yourself, it was not intended to read that way, I didnt see your question to Mr Murphy and only read the reply from the NTA, the sarcasm in my reply to you reflects my opinion of the NTA reply rather than your question to them, hope that clarifies.

  241. Frank

    BB, FYI, O’Brien is a pimp for taxi renters, nothing else. as for Jill Barry, she actually went to college to study “Empty rhetoric”, passed with flying colours, and now trades in vacuous platitudes on behalf of others.
    What you got from Murphy was little more than a used handkerchief, sorry if I burst your bubble.

  242. Rat Catcher

    Laffin erm. I’ll leave the professional gambling to you. In the current economic climate there’s not too many muppets playing poker online or in the casinos. I’d be more likely to be the fleeced than fleecing these days… ahh bring back the tiger, all is forgiven!

    On reading the thread you do seem opposed to how the vast majority of drivers operate for one reason or another BB but that may be necessary. It’s probably better to have a small group committed to the vision for the future that you promote than a wishy washy multicoloured group. Ya’ve plenty of reasons to include me in one or more of the groups you oppose without making up reasons that don’t exist man.

  243. john m

    Game In the old Snooker Hall in Clondalkin Rodent .You should be easily able to get your holiday money .BB use to play years ago .You should invite him over to your lair for a game and some Vino .You boys need to make up .It is upsetting to see you disagree .You might see if Gerry B would like a hand as well .

  244. john m

    He was very upset BB that you suggested that he might be capable of working long enough to cover the rental .I know that he spends a lot of his time getting ready to be ready to do something if something needs doing and would not have any time to waste on doing stuff that didnt really need doing .He is very very busy at being busy .Sometimes I drop up to his lair and we discuss being busy and the best approach to using your time at being busy while not looking busy .We have discovered that watching Cricket or baseball seems to fit the bill best .Test matches are ideal opportunities for stimulating busyiness which prevents others from requiring you to be busy on their behalf .Your suggestion that the Rodent would engage in real being busy to make money for somebody else would be an affront to one of the busyiest people I know.Also the suggestion that he was renting from a renter and neither he nor the renter had informed the new dynamic app could lead to the assumption that either or both parties were conspiring to commit some sort of deception .A somewhat serious allegation to make especially where both parties are professional operators and would not engage in any such practices .

  245. bohemian boy

    john ill tell ya what happened,just to clear things up with da rodent.i picked up a fare about 2/3 weeks ago. it turned out to be yer man ken o brien who had a bird with him. i did not know who he was as i had never met him before. we engaged in conversation.he asked me 3 times whenever i am selling my car would i give him first refusal.the conversation got on to the taxi industry,and he revealed who he was. he seemed rather surprised that i never heard of him.personally i felt he was full of shite,and thought that i should pay homage to him because he has 200 taxis rented out .i left him in no doubt about my thoughts on the rental market.during the course of the conversation he mentioned that most drivers on this forum rent from him,but he specifically mentioned stephen,and a fella called leon o brien as being two of his else would i know that stephen even knew this guy ? i reckon he was trying to impress the bird with his talk about what he owned,or didnt own,where as i was only focused on the fare to swords .hope this clarifies matters

  246. Paudie

    sounds like yer man o brien is jam packed full of shite. and seems to have an opinion of himself as a business man. I would regard all these renters as scum.

  247. sclass

    Its the Arthur Daleys of this world that blatantly ignore the regulations and exploits all the loopholes that exist in the taxi so called regulations who are more successful than us fools who obeys the laws.The NTA have proven to be totally incapable of proper enforcement and are not fit for purpose.

  248. john m

    Ill try once more .Get organised and get represented on the local council .Then try to get onto the transport or local policing liaison committed and hold them to account .Its not rocket science .

  249. bohemian boy

    ill also try once more john,why dont YOU go for it. you seem to understand what way things work in the council,and i told you before any help i can give will be given if you require it.

  250. Paudie

    that’s always the case with these arthur daley type characters. they literally get away with murder, while the rest of us play honest, and slog for a few quid.

  251. john m

    BB I have spoken with others and it might happen .There are others with better chances of success than me .I will make a decision nearer the time when I see who else is on the ballot.

  252. bohemian boy

    john i can clearly see that you are committed to making a difference to the lives of full time taxi drivers,it would be a shame if you decide not to run.however my offer stands regardless

  253. bohemian boy

    john if i was serious about running for election to dublin city council,and i had the commitment you undoubtly have in trying to sort the problems that effect full time taxi drivers, i would not be remotely concerned who else was running,and certainly my decision would not be based on that. there may be others who,as you say have a better chance,but do they have the same commitment ? drivers are only interested in someone who can represent them effectively in places that matter,so i say to you go for it man,and i say to the rests of you encourage john to run on our behalf,and when the time comes be fully prepared to give him every assistance he requires.dont forget we all benefit if john is successful,and TOGETHER we can and will win the fight to be able to enjoy the same conditions as our colleagues in the 9 to 5 sector where you can work normal hours,and enjoy a normal life.we deserve to be able to spend time with our families the same as others. the reasons we cannot is, we are competing with people who willing think nothing of taking our livlihoods from us. double jobbers, illegal operators, etc etc, by putting john in we can take the first step in addressing this. dont take any more of this treatment lads,FIGHT BACK.

  254. sclass

    John Bo is right go for it yourself you know how it works .No better man.
    Your like a greyhound waiting for the trapdoor to open.Go for it.

  255. bohemian boy

    paudie i have gone over it word for word there is absolutely no use of bad language or anything like that in it. where the hell is roy to answer this ? is he the only one to permit,or ban posts ? i had one last week actually complimenting the rat and it was banned and still is why ?

  256. john m

    Boh I believe that there will be a congestion charge for Dublin and I have no reason to believe that taxi drivers wont be charged an annual fee.Our representatives in the past failed to have us exempted or a reduced tarriff for the toll bridges or port tunnell.I also believe that as a result of the Protest at the Burlo the restriction on taxies ranking in hotel,club or shopping centers will be removed .As a result of this there will be an increase in rank spaces and many of the present public ranks will be closed to provide more parking spaces for the Go Car project and rent a bike ranks .I could also be wrong but by having a voice in the council you are taking out a bit of insurance and will at least be able to put the industrys point before the council .The TAC under represents the industry and cannot be relied upon to do the right thing for drivers .

  257. bohemian boy

    john i just wish my post had not been censored i urged drivers to make themselves available to you,i cannot understand why it was blocked and would like one of the moderators to come on here and explain why this mornings one,and the one last week were blocked.there is no use of bad langauge,or libles comments contained in either

  258. bohemian boy

    john you say in your post that as a result of the burlo action you believe the restriction on taxis parking in such places will be removed, sure at the moment one could be forgiven for thinking no such restrictions apply in the first place with the amount of illegal parking by radio company drivers,and the fact its being ignored by the enforcement people

  259. Rat Catcher

    I think you’re right in suggesting that there are better candidates than yourself erm. To be honest it would be difficult to find anyone less qualified. Really you need a man who has enjoyed some success on the sports field and has a track record of serving the community on a residents’ association or town/parish council. To specifically chase the taxi vote you would need someone with a track record on TAC or the boss of TTnH (whoever that is these days) to make any impact. Personally I think it should be someone who relies on the trade for a living. By your own admission you earn most of your income from gambling. Regardless of how successful your gambling activities are, gamblers never sit well with the electorate as they’re generally manic depressives.

  260. Rat Catcher

    BB, I’d say Ken was full of gargle and just rattling off any names of (ex) contributors to Spookie’s forum that he could remember. He does rent to a few (ex) contributors but not those named. Leon has a couple of motors on the road himself. He’s a young lad but his family were in the game before dereg and he thinks like a taximan. The only reason I’d imagine he’d be renting off Ken would be if one of his own yokes was temporarily off the road or he needed to borrow a few bits off one of Kens yokes to get one of his own through the NCTS or something like that.

  261. john m

    BB problem;non conforming ranks on private property .Solution:remove restrictions problem solved .The big dispatchers would love the opportunity to buy up whole sections of dublin and control the corporate sector and force drivers to rent a radio.How many companies have alligned drivers who plot up on the Burlo or Jurys if they could move their drivers into the hotel carpark they could get their friends on the TAC to try to close down the public ranks .Corporate representatives on the TAC would welcome the opportunity to get an earner from taxi dispatchers .Wait till the final draft of the bill and see what changes are proposed to the road traffic act .

  262. Paudie

    boh I had the same problem with a post last week, and you will not get a reply from roy. he just suits himself all the way.
    john m we will not be hit for congestion charges, cabbies in the uk have not been charged. just hit the muppets in the private cars who clog up the cities.

  263. john m

    Paudie unlike London we have what are essentially private motorists using their cars at the weekend to do a bit of taxi work .If you really believe that a councillor representing homeowners in south county dublin is going to exempt taxies and increase household charges for his voters you might be dissapointed .Unless you have somebody in there fighting your corner you wont be heard .Self financing for local authorities is going to become the way of the future .

  264. Rat Catcher

    The Road Traffic Act does not preclude private ranks on private property erm. There are bye-laws that require such ranks to be approved through the planning process within Dublin City Council’s administrative area.

    The new Taxi Regulation Act is likely to provide for hackney ranks on private property to accommodate the new Local Area Hackneys.

    It is unlikely that Local Area Hackneys or hackney ranks will be required within Dublin City Council’s administrative area.

  265. Rat Catcher

    There is a need to broaden the tax base erm. Increased consumption based charges in respect of services administered by local authorities are a necessity. Councilors won’t have any say in the imposition of whatever levies are deemed appropriate. It will be up to City/County managers to devise the most appropriate strategies for their administrative areas.

  266. Paudie

    easy compromise there is to impose the charge on the part time scabs. I would really enjoy that. also revenue should not let them have cheaper road tax on their part time taxis. hit them for the full amount. restrict the road tax reduction to full time taxi owner drivers only. hit all rentals with high rate also.

  267. john m

    Rodent the city manager will tell the council what the budget is and it will be up to them to find it .Property tax parking charges ,Congestion charges and any other area where a few sheckles can be gained but councillors will try to avoid impacting on their voters .We will have to see the wording of any change to the RTA .I cant see it only applying to rural hacks.Mr Fullerton would welcome a relaxation of the restriction as it would solve the problem for him and his team of enforcers .It would also prevent any further demonstrations in front of premises as the practice would be legal the councils would welcome anything that increases available rankspace as it removes the onus on them to provide .When the Minister said he was all in favour of full time drivers this might be what he had in mind as only full time drivers would profit from paying for a radio and if they remove some of the public ranks and fine for illegal ranking then the part time operator who is not aligned to a dispatcher will find it very expensive to operate and might only come out on very very busy times .On the face of it this might look like a pro full time driver strategy.

  268. john m

    Paudie the charge applies to the vehicle not the driver .There is no such thing as a full time taxi driver only a SPSV or PSV licence holder.

  269. Rat Catcher

    What do you mean there’s no such thing as part-timers. It sounds to me like you’re saying that you would fight for the same concessions for the part-time scum as the full-time scum in the highly unlikely event that you are elected/appointed to something at some time. You can get fukk off and vote for you-fukkin-self if that’s your fukkin game.

    The Road Traffic Act does not preclude private ranks on private property.

  270. Paudie

    don’t agree with you at all john m. what do you call a Dublin bus driver who gets out of his bus, and straight into a part time taxi. or a soldier out the barracks gate, ready to put up his roofie. the choice is endless, and they are all part time taxi drivers. in other words, scum and scabs. why should they get any concessions on tax etc.
    how can you possibly say that there is no such thing as a full time taxi driver. what have I been doing for the last 30 years ??

  271. Rat Catcher

    On tax concessions, I guess the double jobbing scum probably pay EUR10,000+ per man in income tax so they might feel more entitled to concessions than those of us that pay fukk all but you’re bang on Paudie. A vote for the erm is a vote for the double jobbing scum. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the only way to fix the game is to go back to where it was alright. Take back every licence issued since deregulation.

  272. Rat Catcher

    Next the erm will be telling us that there’s no such thing as nn, just licence holders… nearly as bad as BB saying he wants to give the nn an equal chance to make a few quid.

  273. Paudie

    they are just africans with a psv livence. they dont work taxis at all, not even illegally. they get them off shatter down at the convention centre.

  274. Rat Catcher

    There’s loads of them working up above in Dublin. Sure why wouldn’t they with BB and his ilk welcoming them with open arms. An equal chance to earn notes, ask me bollix. Leave them on the fukkin ranks like what Ms. Doyle practically told us to do. The MEN of Louth didn’t give them ANY chance.

  275. Paudie

    well far from it, I would give them the door out of this country if I could. too many handouts, and this country broke. send them all home.

  276. bohemian boy

    paudie i have as little time for the imports as anyone else,but you cannot legally exclude them if they are here and operating legally.rat knows that he is just trying to stir it up

  277. Paudie

    boh i agree with you there, but my burning question is why were so many of them allowed into Ireland. they have is robbed.
    i will never never accept them as being here legally.

  278. Rat Catcher

    Of course they can be excluded. Ms. Doyle told us that customers may choose the car/driver they want. An FF Senator put on record the fact that he won’t risk using them. It’s up to Irish drivers to educate their clients. Give them an equal chance to make a living… It’s the pinko lefty do gooders like you that have the game bollixed BB… and why are ya telling us that the erm is committed to full time drivers, he doesn’t even believe there’s any such thing as full-time drivers!

  279. Paudie

    too many people scared to walk past them, as i have seen them get out of the welfare taxis and verbally abuse people. they shout racism and all the usual crap. i keep telling people they are free to choose whatever car or driver they wish.

  280. Rat Catcher

    With all the anecdotes we hear about their antics people should be too scared to get in with them. It’s up to drivers to make sure that consumers hear the anecdotes. Do you want to protest alongside robbers and rapists because BB says they have to be included?

  281. bohemian boy

    funny that rat is now saying i want them to be included,because just the other day he posted a detailed list of everyone he says i want EXCLUDED including nns.paudie rat is well known for his antics particularly on roys forum.he changes his opinion on a daily basis about different groups, indivduals,nationalities,etc etc i gaurentee by next week he will be sup[porting the inclusion of nns to our business.this is the reason why nobody takes him serious.the only time i seen rat get serious was when i wound him up about renting.which goes to show he can slag,but cannot take it

  282. Paudie

    that’s what most of them are, criminals. they have not been properly vetted here, and should not have a psv licence. its a disgrace. I do know, and carry, lots of people who will not travel with the. part of it is fear of them, and the rest is loyalty to Irish drivers.

  283. bohemian boy

    ps as for john m running for election it is obvious to everyone on this forum that john has done his homework on how things work regarding the taxis.nobody does that amount of research if they were not committied to the subject they researched

  284. Rat Catcher

    I assumed from your previous contributions that you’d want them excluded from your call for unity but you corrected me and said you only want to exclude the double jobbing scum. Ms Doyle says they can be excluded but you say they can’t.

    Then you’re telling us to get behind the erm because he’s committed to full time drivers. The erm says there’s no such thing as full time drivers.

    Do ya think you’re taken seriously, your a bleedin’ joke man!

  285. bohemian boy

    paudie it has been my experience that older people are much more selective about who they travel with then younger people.loyds pub in amien st will not under any circumstances travel with nns,they wait for an irish driver.

  286. Rat Catcher

    So tell us BB:
    are the nn included in your call for unity or not?
    are we to support the unions that fight for full time drivers or the erm who says there’s no such thing as full time drivers?
    are we to support your petition against app/radio firms or the unions that endorse commercial dispatch firms?

    C’mon sham don’t be shy man…

  287. Paudie

    boh the older people would be really scared of them, simply because the know exactly what they are. they will travel with an Irish driver only, who will take good care of them, and get them home safe with no rip off. some of the younger crew travel with, but some have regretted that decision, as they were assaulted.

  288. sclass

    What if we back a candidate and he/ she got elected.
    What if they went their own way and abandon us.
    What if they vote against us on a council vote
    Who do we know that is fully committed to us.
    Who will pledge their loyalty to us poor straw grasping

  289. bohemian boy

    to answer your questions rat
    are the nns included in your call for unity or not ? answer i ask ALL full time taxi drivers to unite in a common cause are we to support the unions who fight for full time taxi drivers or the erm who says there is no such thing ? answer the conclusion that there is no such thing is a conclusion drawn by the erm alone.however while he may by techinally right in his assesment,i think it is fair to say that most people draw the conclusion that any driver whos sole income is derived from the taxi industry,could thus be considered to be a full time taxi driver. are we to support my petition against radio/apps or the unions that endorse commercial dispatch firms. answer the issue of dispatch/apps and their participation in the industry,i believe is purely a personal choice,made by drivers although i personally am not in favour of them because i believe some of them to be operating in an illegal fashion in relation to the hotel situation

  290. john m

    BB Now you are beginning to see the difference between drivers with other incomes and those who make their living compleatly by driving .So technically ,legally if not morally there is no such thing as a full time driver .This is reflected in the makeup of the TAC .How many members hand picked by the minister rely on taxi driving for their sole income 1 possibly 2 .If as you say there was some kind of unity among drivers dependent on the industry for their living they could of lobbied the minister and avoided the review which has done nothing for them.In reply to S Class the taxi industry would struggle to provide 400 votes in any constituency .Some reps supported Labour thinking that Joe Costello had all the answers .It would not be possible to get a candidate elected on a taxi only platform any person you support would be silly to row back on a promise as he would be depending on your future support .Remember running some candidates is only an idea nobody has ever said what form support should be .if you want to own the candidate are you going to cover his election costs and cover possibly 4 weeks wages as he will need to be on the knocker before the vote .

  291. Rat Catcher

    Rattled me is an understatement Paul. Ya burdened the bollix offa me man, me coffee just dropped straight through me fingers at the thought of Irish taxi drivers united with the nn. I’d say that protest will have a piss poor turnout.

    Given your definition of full time, do you not think it should be someone that satisfies that definition himself? The erm makes most of his money from gambling.

    Common sense dictates that someone with a proven track record in representing drivers would be safest bet hence my suggestion that someone who’s served on TAC or the current boss of TTnH would make good candidates.

  292. True Dub

    Taxi drivers FFS, first item on the agenda the split, second item on the agenda argue over what may or may not have happened 10 years ago.

  293. Rat Catcher

    I’m consistent in all my views BB. I’ve contributed to several submissions which are all in the public domain so that consistency is there for all to see.

    Jerry Brennan didn’t do anything on me, I never contributed to any of his rep bodies. The reasons I conclude that he is a lying, cheating, scumbag are quite simple. He has a line of patter he sells to his contributors which states that his organisation is opposed to discounting, in favour of one man one plate, opposed to the skills test and opposed to double jobbers yet on his management committee I found:

    a man operating a discount dispatch firm.
    a man with “commission certified driver” on his business card.
    a man who openly boasted on fora of his various auxiliary trades.
    a man with three plates, two rented out.

    Some time ago I asked him some very basic questions about the then state of the trade and he didn’t know the answers so attempted to launch into his stock republican lecture (amusingly, his facts in that area are inaccurate to a laughable extent also) instead. The fact is the lying, cheating, scumbag will say whatever needs to be said to extract money from drivers. He has zero interest in the trade or drivers.

  294. sclass

    Rat .Is it your opinion all taxi drivers should sit a skills test.
    Should it be compulsory
    What is the purpose of a skills test.
    What’s the conseguances if we fail.
    What will it cost.
    We had it all before where did it go and why did it go.

  295. Rat Catcher

    The skills test is an interesting area SC. Drivers not knowing where they are going is frequently identified as one of the main problems within the trade. Minister Kelly side stepped the issue within his review by providing for a further review of driver skills in the context of the current skills development programme.

    The industry section of the test that existing drivers were/are required to sit is neither here nor there, it’s a piece of piss. Requiring all drivers to complete both sections would be an obvious way to reduce numbers with a focus on retaining those drivers that are most competent. However, drivers are generally opposed to testing.

    Personally I think it makes sense that all drivers complete both sections at every licence renewal. Cities change over time so it seems appropriate to ensure that drivers are familiar with the same at periodic intervals, particularly as drivers themselves frequently complain they they (i.e. the others) don’t have sufficient knowledge. I don’t think there should be any significant cost to drivers that pass first time. The cost of providing such tests could be built into the consequences of failure. For example, if a driver passes the test issue him with a 5 year licence but if he fails issue him with a 6 month licence at the same price. There could be an overall limit on the number of times a driver may attempt the test to weed out those that have no aptitude for the job and will never pass.

  296. Rat Catcher

    Just an after thought… If area tests were required at every renewal it would also serve to reduce the number of areas drivers are licensed for. For example, my licence allows me ply for hire in Dublin and Wicklow. As I have little interest in plying for hire in Wicklow (other than if I happen to be passing through and not having the appropriate licence wouldn’t stop me doing that anyway!) I wouldn’t bother me bollix with that test so I’d be down to one area.

  297. bohemian boy

    rat you certainly have a very low opinion of jerry,but surely its time to put all our differences aside now,and go forward in search of a common aim. i always believe the biggest opsticle to our unity is ego. do people not realize they are dealing with the livlihoods,and in some cases the actual lives of vunerable drivers who desperately need the knid of leadership that is available,but unfortunately is not forthcoming because of the problem of a full time taxi driver,i dont really care who,or what rep,or rep body is responsible for achieving what we all want,but i just ask you to,jointly [including you stephen] to get off your arses and get together with a view to saving the industry

  298. bohemian boy

    reply from fullerton
    Dear Mr O’Beirne,

    I am aware that you have made this query through other channels and I have contributed to the responses that you have been given already. This includes the correspondence made through a public representative. I also understand that Jill Barry from the NTA has issued some correspondence in recent days.

    You are aware that we receive a multitude of complaints and information from around the country and must try and act upon that information with eight officers. In the ‘two years’ that you have reported the issue at the hotels, the problem faced within the city centre has increased and our officers have often been the only personnel tackling the issue.

    I understand from Jill Barry that the ‘hotels’ issue will be addressed with the inclusion of the hotels themselves. Hopefully, the long-awaited addition of extra compliance personnel and the extension of the Fixed Charge Penalties to the Gardai will assist our officers to focus upon the issues which are a priority.


    Eddie Fullerton

  299. Rat Catcher

    I agree with what you’re saying in principle BB but I don’t believe unity can be achieved. Opinions among drivers are just too diverse. Like I said earlier in this thread I’ve pretty much concluded that it is what it is. If ya can make a few notes well and good. If not, and I’m gonna agree with the erm here which is very rare, find some other way of supplementing/earning your income.

    That said, I wouldn’t discourage those, like TD and yourself, that are making efforts to improve the trade even where such improvements may not suit my own modus operandi.

    I can’t see Government doing anything to reduce numbers so those opposed to skills testing need not worry. Minister Kelly’s promised review in that area will never happen. Licence plate numbers were in freefall prior to the Minister’s intervention. They’ve pretty much stabalised now so he will see that as indicative of renewed confidence among drivers and supportive of the assumption that they must be earning remuneration commensurate with the skills required to do the job. In other words, it’s job done.

    TTnH are probably the best hope full-time drivers have as far as representation goes. I am critical of their endorsing commercial dispatch firms, particularly firms that employ double jobbers but the Alliance done the same, in fact amid reports on Spookie’s forum that Jerry Brennan secured a job for a member of his immediate family in return for that endorsement.

  300. sclass

    Scenario,Driver is put off the road,he’s livelihood removed.Takes it to court.Judge asked why did he get a license in the first place why was it ok for him to drive a taxi for the last 10 years.
    So now he must apply for social welfare.
    The reality is .Do you believe that is a runner.
    If that driver looked to his rep for support .should they turn him away.
    Minister,shooting,foot,and all that.

  301. bohemian boy

    when they say the problem of the hotel situation will be addressed,its debatable what exactly they mean,particularly when they say it will involve the hotels themselves. do they mean they are going to stamp out the illegal plying for hire from the car parks if so they should act with immeadiade effect as its illegal ? or more worrying do they mean as johnm proposed they are going to invite the hotels to sell they spaces to the radio companies,and effectely legalise what is already happening

  302. john m

    Nobody is going to be put off the road Certified driver test is just another money maker.I posted earlier and when Roy returns he might publish my post .This industry is ruled by the lowest common denominator .Low standards of operator and low standard of vehicle will suffice .Customers can choose the standard they want .The only thing that rep bodies can do is to try to prevent more costs and charges .

  303. Rat Catcher

    First of all I will reiterate my opinion that it will never happen. As far as Minister Kelly is concerned he’s solved all the problems in the trade so the promised review of skills in the context of the current testing regime is unnecessary.

    As regards a licence renewal being refused there are two simple reasons that can be done:
    1) Legally there’s no such thing as renewal of a SPSV driving licence. Each application is technically a new application which is assessed on it’s own merits i.e. the existence of any previous licence (or refusal to issue a licence) is completely irrelevant – Fatus -v- Murphy & Anor (2013).
    2) He had sufficient knowledge of the area when he last applied, he doesn’t now, the area has changed a lot and he hasn’t kept his knowledge up to date.

  304. john m

    Rodent some rep body will call for testing at every application and to keep them happy the minister will oblige and the new area knowledge will include such informative questions as What is the new name for the Juries inn in ballsbridge Dublin 4 or What is the new name for Diva @ the red cow Inn Nass road Dublin 12 .Followed by where in Dublin was the old Jurys inn and Where in Dublin is the Red cow .The new postal zip codes will make area knowledge redundant and as long as you can programme a sat nav you will qualify .

  305. Rat Catcher

    Rep bodies invariably oppose skills testing erm… while simultaneously complaining that drivers (the other drivers) don’t know their arse from their elbow.

  306. bohemian boy

    lets assume john m is right,and the thinking by the minister is to legalize parking in hotel car parks for any dispatcher who wants to buy this availability of this then not unfair competition as it would be to the exclusion of independent drivers ? would the competition authority not have to act on behalf of independent drivers? just asking loike

  307. john m

    BB If they were selecting their preferred service provider on the same basis that they would select any other supplier whats the problem.There might be an issue concerning hellow money but that would concern the dispatch companies and not necesserily individual drivers as you have the option to choose to join a dispatcher or not.

  308. john m

    Bb can i run this by you .After the protest on the Burlo why did drivers not protest at all other venues where they were excluded ?.Here is my thought .Most dispatch companies have clients in that part of the city and use the Burlo rank as a plot .They were afraid if Kelly got to rank inside the Burlo then the public rank or at least the larger part of it would be closed and they would lose out .I know for a fact as a councillor informed me that they would like to close that rank closed as they are overwhelmed by complaints from the residents of the apartments about noise from cars shuffling on the rank and drivers talking at all hours of the morning .Drivers littering trowing butts and bottles into the complex and pissing in the gateway .The reason that there was no further protests is simple dispatchers are in control .The reason behind all the support by reps for the Burlo and not for any other off street protests is obvious .

  309. bohemian boy

    john i was of the view that the reason no further protests took place was,that no other illegal rank was established in such close proximity to an offical rank,where it was in your face

  310. Rat Catcher

    # bohemian boyon 23 Aug 2013 at 9:54 am

    lets assume john m is right

    There’s a first time for everything I guess.

    There’s no reason to suspect that the bye-laws applicable to Dublin City Council’s administrative area will be overturned. The erm’s conclusion is largely based on his misinterpretation of the proposed private ranks for Local Area Hackneys. It is unlikely that there will be any Local Area Hackney licences issued for DCCs administrative area so such ranks will never arise within that jurisdiction.

    Of course the erm would like to get himself elected to DCC so that he can solve this non-existent problem and the other very serious non-existent problem of congestion charges being applied to taxis.

    Let him set out what he is going to do to solve the very real problems currently faced by full-time taxi drivers. Oh, wait didn’t he tell us that there’s no such thing as full-time taxi drivers and advise all those who think they are full time taxi drivers to find another way to supplement/earn their income if they can’t get by on their taxi driving profits.

    A vote for the erm is a vote for the double jobbing scum.

  311. bohemian boy

    anyway john i certainly do not discount your belief about what they are planning for hotel car parks,although needles to say i hope you are wrong.i really believe now they may be waiting for the bill to be signed into law,and thats why they have dragged their heels insofar as addressing it.they are not going to tell anto kelly to sling his hoon ow,and then invite him back in when they legalize it. in the meantime i have written to the competition authority, the irish hotels federation,gerry murphy nta, hugh creegan nta, richard bruton minister for employment, eddie fullerton compliance manager, etc etc all asking them what they propose to do about this illegal behaviour

  312. john m

    Rodent There is no such thing as a full time taxi driver only a psv licence holder who depends on operating a taxi for his income .The nearest thing you could get to a full time taxi driver is a paye worker who is engaged by an employer and is restricted by working time directives .He might simply be refered to as a driver or transport worker and not accept the spurious title of full time taxi driver .Before the next local elections the taxi bill will be passed and then we will know how the off street element will be applied .I have answered this question before when asked if I intend to stand in the upcomming election my answer was NO.I did forecast some months ago that dispatchers would rent per shift and any reduction in plate numbers would be negated by this practice .I also ponder this possibility .If rent per shift on a Paye Basis is established as a profitable exercise and remember Working Time Directives apply to employees .Could that evidence of a profitable enterprise be put forward in support of a WTD for all taxi drivers ?.

  313. Rat Catcher

    You are very charitable BB. I can’t think of one single example of the erm interpreting any piece of legislation accurately. The bloke has an unenviable track record of getting things arse about face.

    TTnH have done a lot of work on the situation at the Burlington and other hotels within DCCs administrative area. I would suggest you touch base with them. While letter writing is all very well (and to be commended), when push come to shove TTnH have the resources to initiate legal action if required.

  314. Rat Catcher

    erm, the Working Time Directive does not apply to self-employment. Minister Kelly noted that regulation of working hours is a very complex area as it is very difficult to define working hours. MABs define working hours as hours engaged with a client. By that standard no driver would get close to 48 hours in a week. Driving hours would probably be easier to regulate but that wouldn’t be particularly effective unless double jobbers could be banned from parking their vehicles anywhere other than at their principle private residence.

  315. bohemian boy

    rat i have huge respect for ttnh,and the work they do on behalf of taxi not sure there is much they could do however if,as john suggests they minister legalizes off street parking,and dispatchers buy up the available space. i heard the other day that kearns made an offer of 5 k for the burlo and they told him to go fukk i dont know if its true,or not,but i would not rule out anything those sc,mbag dispatchers would try

  316. Rat Catcher

    Jobseekers Allowance is means tested erm. Minister Kelly noted that up to 50% of taxi drivers legitimately claim welfare. That is one of the reasons that drivers’ representatives are reluctant to argue against the MABS definition of working hours, noting that the MABS brochure advertising the trade as a source of pocket money for welfare recipients contains that definition and is endorsed by most of the rep bodies that Jerry Brennan owns under the Alliance banner.

    5k… is that per day? It’s actually a practice that Vinny has always been opposed to. In fact he has always taken pride in the fact that his firm has not gone down that road. Unless his policy has changed in recent times it’s unlikely that there’s any truth in that.

  317. john m

    BB around where i live .liffey Valley,Mill Shopping centre ,Penny Hill.Red Cow ,Fitzgeralds hotel ,Plaza hotel,Old Mill .Orchard Pub all have exclusive ranking arrangements .As there is no physical rank with signage denoting rank is there actually a rank or is there just a private business arrangement between service providers ?.As the Rodent points out the council MAY introduce rules and regs its obvious that the RTA allows this .If they remove any requirement to apply for planning or by law approval then any pub or club or hotel is welcome to select a chosen service provider that meets their business requirements and allow them exclusivity .It will also remove responsibility for conformity from the enforcement team and free them up to issue fines elsewhere .The removal of restriction is a defacto permission for dispatchers to go for work capture on certain premises and also plots for their aligned drivers .Im sure certain companies will be more active in certain areas than others this should result in reduced competition among companies and a reduction in discounts which will allow dispatchers to increase charges

  318. john m

    22.—(1) A local authority may make bye-laws in respect of any
    specified area in its functional area for all or any of the following
    purposes— 25
    (a) appointing the places (“appointed stands”) at which taxis
    may stand for hire;
    (b) fixing the maximum number of taxis which may stand for
    hire at the same time at any particular appointed stand;
    (c) specifying appointed stands at which taxis may stand for 30
    hire at particular times only and specifying those times;
    (d) determining the manner in which taxis shall make use of
    and stand for hire at any particular appointed stand;
    (e) prohibiting taxis from standing for hire at places in the
    area that are not appointed stands; 35
    (f) otherwise regulating and controlling the use of appointed
    (2) Different bye-laws may be made under this section—
    (a) in respect of different areas within the functional area of
    the local authority concerned, and 40
    (b) in respect of other different circumstances.
    (3) The driver of a taxi shall not stand for hire with the taxi other
    than at an appointed stand in an area in which it is licensed under
    section 9 to so stand.

    Read section 22(2) The council can implement by laws or just ignore it .Note section 22(2)(b)So if circumstance dictate .If the owner of the property wants a service for his customers ,as I said its basically a free for all .If a dispatcher comes to an arrangement to provide the service and the land owner wants it .The council wont be objecting especially as it removes the onus and cost of rank provision from the relevant council or local authority.

  319. john m

    BB if you want to write letters .Write to the Chair of the Transport Committee of DCC,SDCC ,Fingal and Dun Rathdown .Ash them what is their policy in regard to off street taxi ranking .The Road Traffic act is the law of the land .It clearly states that it is up to local councils to formulate policy .There is no reference to rural hacks .Just that councils can introduce different rules for different circumstances .Do you believe for one minute if rural hacks are allowed to stand off street that the same companies who will probably employ them wont look for the same privilege for their taxi drivers .Once one local authority or council allows this then if others dont it off to the high court .Apart for the Burlo and I have explained why I believe there was such support for that protest .Can you give any other example of an off street rank or on site rank being closed by the taxiwhatsit .The answer is that the taxiwhatsit have no authority in that area .The road trad traffic act clearly states it is the remit of the local council .The remit of the taxiwhatsit only refers to a public place and I think that there is a further definition of public place as a road that is maintained by the local council.The venues that I have listed are only a few I am sure drivers could add to the list .There wont be a club,pub or hotel that is not aligned to a dispatcher after this bill is passed .The result will be a big increase in cabs ranking off the road the council will like that and probably respond by closing some on street ranks to free up more profitable parking spaces .

  320. john m

    So do you think with all this power to regulate your industry that it does not make sense to try and be represented on the Transport committee of the local council .one of the biggest issues to impact your industry is the pedestrianization of College Green and South William street .Do any of your reps know what impact this will have on traffic through put and how it will impact on taxies .There is also a proposal to pedestrianize the whole of Temple bar with access limited for deliveries the same as Grafton Street .What submissions did your reps make to the council on this issue or were they even aware of it ?

  321. Rat Catcher

    AAh right, the bye-laws that prevent private ranks without planning permission only apply within DCCs administrative area.

    Planners always invite submissions from the public and interested parties in respect of infrastructural projects such as pedestrianisation erm.

  322. john m

    Rodent where does it say you need planning permission ?Different councils can make different arrangements .Simplist thing is not to have any restrictions on off street ranking .After all if it is an area not maintained by the council why would they bother .

  323. john m

    Rodent TTna H have done extensive work on ranks we are told .Do they know when was the last planning application to be made to put a rank on privare property or was there ever one anywhere in the state?

  324. john m

    Rodent do you know .If planning permission was granted to put a taxi rank on private property .Would the owner have to apply for change of use if they wanted to close it.

  325. john m

    Rodent ..Im sure you see where Im going here .If planning permission was required .Drawings and engineers reports and application fees and then wait on the planning committee to vote to approve or reject your application .You then have allocated some of your space as a taxi rank .The dispatchers could hold you to ransom as that area would be designated for taxi use .You might then have to apply for change of use to turn it back to parking and the local taxi drivers would object .The best way for councils to get private property owners to provide rank space is to interpret the road traffic act and require no permissions to allow you choose a favoured service provider for your business .How did the reps handle the closure of the rank in st Jamses .Was there an application by the HSE for change of use of the old rank?

  326. Rat Catcher

    That bye-law only applies within DCCs administrative area erm. The Burlington was told that it would require planning permission to operate a rank on it’s premises and further advised that it would be unlikely to secure said permission as there was an existing rank in close proximity to it’s premises.

    Now that gives ya a whole new ball of string to play with. I’m sure you will remember a provision precluding bookmakers from obtaining suitability of premises certification on the grounds of an existing premises being in close proximity being ruled contrary to both the constitution and competition laws.

  327. john m

    Rodent is their not a public taxi rank as well as Gala cabs in Liffey Valley .Is their not a public rank outside Jurys .Is their not a public rank outside Bewleys .As I said before The Burlo enjoyed the support of all reps as all the Dispatchers use the rank as a plot .There is no need for planning permission to place a rank on your premises and the issue will be cleared up when the new bill is passed and DCC decide not to have any policy on private ranks on private property .As soon as all four dublin councils are united under an elected mayor the SDCC model of no policy will be the norm.South Dublin CC has been well rewarded with plenty of private ranks by their interpretation of the Road Traffic Act .

  328. Rat Catcher

    erm, I think we’re into week 58 of this discussion now yet still you are missing the point.

    The bye-law that requires private ranks on a private premises only applies within DCCs administrative area.

  329. john m

    There is no by law rodent .They spun drivers a yarn .If such a by law existed Gerry Brennan and the other reps would of marched on Jurys and Bewleys ballsbridge .The councils MAY make by laws but never have .The Reps only got involved when a few independent drivers embarressed them into action and the Dispatchers who rank their cars on the rank were frightened that if there was a rank inside the gate then the public rank might be lost to them .Have you a copy of the DCC By law applicable to taxi ranks on private property ?does anybody?The new road traffic act allows councils to adopt a policy of having no policy .

  330. john m

    Apart from the Burlo do you or TTna H know the location of any other place where this by law is applied ?Im sure BB will contact them by letter for a copy of the by law.GB probably also has a copy on file in his office .

  331. john m There you go Rodent a copy of the DCC by laws .There is no mention of any by laws covering off street ranks and there is absolutely no mention of any by laws being applicable to the Burlo .There never was .There are no by laws that forbid the provision of ranks on private property .The provisions of the new bill just allow the taxiwhatsit to claim it is not within their remit and allow clubs and hotels to seek out the service provider of their choice

  332. john m

    12. A driver of a street service vehicle shall not stand the street
    service vehicle for hire otherwise than at an appointed stand
    and in accordance with these Bye-Laws

    This section only applies to a public road that is serviced by the council .The council have not taken on any powers to restrict a company having a preferred service provider on their own premises .You posted that there was a by law that prevented ranking in the burlo can you find or get a copy off of somebody .

  333. john m

    Rodent can you appreciate the effect of the missinformation about non existant by laws .Drivers never included any protest about off street ranks in their submissions as they believed they were not allowed.You now begin to see what the minister meant when he said he was all about full time drivers .The dispatchers will buy up the hotels and clubs and capture the work before it hits the streets .Only full time drivers (those who have no time to do anything else)will be able to afford to pay.The big reduction in street work will probably reduce the number of so called full time drivers as there will only be casual work available at weekends .Minister wins gets what he wanted .Drivers aligned to dispatchers and dispatchers controling their drivers and if anybody is bold you get fined .

  334. Rat Catcher

    Those are the bye-laws applicable to existing ranks erm. What you need to research is the by-laws applicable to establishing a rank. TTnH are on top of it though and have been for several years.

    I do appreciate the potential affects of misinformation but I reckon your track record of getting things arse about face will serve to minimise such consequences. Those interested should contact TTnH, the lads in there know what they are doing and have access to professional legal practitioners.

  335. john m

    Rodent .This is important .Who told who that the Burlo would need to apply for planning permission and then went on to usurp the city council planning department and say that the Burlo would be unlikely to get planning due to the close proximity of a public rank .This is beginning to ape the great O Connell Street victory .A shroud of missinformation .There is no need for planning permission there is only a need for by law approval and that only applies to on street ranking .I think BB will have to try and clarify for once and for all if the owner of a private premises wishes to allow acess to a prefered service provider .What is the process required to satisfy any city ordinances . If TTna H have the info then BB can contact them.

  336. Rat Catcher

    TTnH have the info. I told you that and I suggested to BB that he touch base with them for that very reason. The only misinformation arises from your own misinterpretation.

  337. john m

    Who told who that the Burlo needed to apply for planning permission .There is a Touch of the Anthony Edens about this .Peace in our time .Who then assured drivers that the Burlo would not get permission because of the close proximity of a public rank.

  338. Rat Catcher

    How many times do you need to be told. TTnH have all the documentation. They weren’t sold a pup as you suggest. They and their legal advisers know what they are doing.

  339. Frank

    I’m amazed at the amount of post de reg guys who spend too much time trying to work out the problems in the taxi game, they’ve only to take one look in a mirror for the answer.

  340. Paudie

    Totally correct Frank, people like Roy cannot see the oversupply problem thats the end result of deregulation. And lets not forget all the non vetted imports that were handed a psv licence by our incompetent politicians, just to make it look like they are working in Ireland. End result is one almighty mess, wher no one can make a decent living, and no sign of things improving in the near future. Kelly is another clown, with his door stickers and app. God help us.

  341. bohemian boy

    john as far as i know [and i may be wrong] the silver granite pub in palmerstone followed what they believed to be the legal requirements at the time.they applied for,are were granted planning permission to install taxi rank spaces on their premises.they also have these spaces marked out for the sole use of asap drivers

  342. john m

    BB I cant find any record of planning permission being granted to the Granite .They might of inquired and been told it was not necessary .Try to confirm with your source .

  343. bohemian boy

    here is my first response so far
    Date: 26 August 2013

    Our Ref: SCR-2013-125

    Re. Exclusive Agreement

    Dear Mr. O’Beirne,

    Thank you for your email of 22 August concerning alleged anti-competitive behaviour by certain Hotels and Taxi radio companies.

    To help us provide a prompt, informative and friendly customer service, we give an individual screening reference number to each complaint we receive. Your reference number is SCR-2013-125. Please quote this number whenever you contact us about your complaint.

    Malachy Fox, Case Officer, Monopolies Division is dealing with your complaint and will contact you within 15 working days. If you would like to contact us in the meantime, please email me or Malachy at or phone us on 01-804 5422.

    Yours sincerely

    Mark Wilkinson
    Tel: 01-8045417

    The content of this e-mail may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee or the intended recipient, please do not copy it or forward it to anyone. If you have received this email in error, please destroy it and kindly notify the sender.

    Email cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free, it is your responsibility to ensure that this email (including attachments) is safe and authorised for use in your environment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by The Competition Authority for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.


    © 2013 MicrosoftTermsPrivacy

  344. john m

    BB if the granite was granted planning permission by DCC then the legality of every other rank on private property would come into question .The nonsence that we are being told that if you put a telephone booking kiosk on site or some other nonsence it is allowable .You either do or dont need planning permission I wonder could you build a block of appartments without planning permission if you put a telephone in the hall.I find it strange that if planning was needed for The Burlo then why did the reps not continue their protest at Jurys or Bewleys ?

  345. bohemian boy

    john the regular users of the burlo rank were the people who initiated protest action at the there,simply because it affected them directly, as the illegal rank was in their face. while reps may have supported the action,i dont think it was them who suggested was the result of the regular drivers being pissed off

  346. john m

    .After the protest on the Burlo why did drivers not protest at all other venues where they were excluded ?.Here is my thought .Most dispatch companies have clients in that part of the city and use the Burlo rank as a plot .They were afraid if Kelly got to rank inside the Burlo then the public rank or at least the larger part of it would be closed and they would lose out .I know for a fact as a councillor informed me that they would like to close that rank closed as they are overwhelmed by complaints from the residents of the apartments about noise from cars shuffling on the rank and drivers talking at all hours of the morning .Drivers littering trowing butts and bottles into the complex and pissing in the gateway .The reason that there was no further protests is simple dispatchers are in control .The reason behind all the support by reps for the Burlo and not for any other off street protests is obvious .

  347. john m

    An example of residents complaining about taxi ranks …….Cllr. William Lavelle, Fine Gael councillor for Lucan has welcomed plans for consultation meetings to be held jointly by council engineers and councillors with the main groups of local stakeholders i.e. residents, businesses and taxi-drivers on the possible relocation of the taxi-rank in Lucan Village
    William states “The current taxi-rank is very short and far too often results in taxi queuing up at night outside houses at Sarsfield Terrace & Vesey Terrace. This has led to many valid complaints from residents regarding the impact on their quality-of-life. I have met with the Sarsfield Park & District Residents Association along with individual residents to discuss these problems and possible solutions.
    “However any changes to local taxi-rank arrangements must also take into account both the impact on local business and the views of local taxi-drivers. Over the Summer I actively-supported local businesses in opposing the installation of second taxi rank outside Lynches Centra due to the loss of parking spaces and the impact on night-time deliveries. This was not the right solution and proves the need for full consultation so as to find the solution that works best.
    “I also appreciate the concerns raised by many of the taxi-drivers with whom I have been in contact.
    “It is important that the council engage with all stakeholders before any decision is made.

  348. bohemian boy

    there really is two issues here. firstly the question of wether or not it is legal to park in a hotel car park under dcc bye laws,and the road traffic act,and secondly wether or not it is legal to ply for hire at a place other then an officially appointed taxi rank,or stand. the first one i will admit i do not know the answer to, but i am awaiting confirmation from the people who DO know,and the second one i am sure is in breach of the rules governing our industry. this is why i will stand my ground,and this is why i WILL NOT back down. for to long now these radio companies have called the shots so its about time independent drivers got together and opposed the nta who continue to rule in favour of them to the detriment of independents

  349. john m

    BB this is exactly my assumption .When the new bill comes into being .A council can simply not have a policy with regard to off street ranking .That way publicans and others who wish to allow hacks ,rural hacks or taxies collectively known as street service vehicles use their premises need not go to the expense of applying for any permission .This should encourage private business to provide rankspace removing the responsibility from the councils.If we accept what we were told that such arrangements required planning permission then this would be a major change in our industry and open up the business to work capture by people who would buy up the ranking rights .I dont believe there was ever a requirement for planning for off street ranking .The embarrassment caused by the protest at the Burlo has led to a slight change in the RTA that will allow the councils hand over the decision making to individual property owners .

  350. bohemian boy

    john i have stopped trying to second guess what impact the bill might,or might not have on drivers. i must admit i subscribed to the view that roy held about the decals removing double jobbers. in hindsight now i think you could count on two hands the number of double jobbers they helped to remove,so i will not make any assumptions,but hopefully it will be signed into in sept/oct

  351. Paudie

    decals will not remove double jobbers, not will they rid the industry of illegal scum. these decals are already being forged. same applies to this app crap that Kelly dreamed up. its a waste of time. he is a total gobshite. if you complain about some illegal car posing as a taxi, it takes weeks or months to follow up that complaint. reason is very simple, only eight staff in nta quango to cover 26 counties. cannot possibly have any impact. and all the time, the illegal imported scum are having a party with their bogus taxis. this industry is fckd, way past the point of rescue.

  352. john m

    BB …..For you or anybody else that has been following this tread .I hope ROY will publish my post that is waiting to be moderated .I point out that drivers will have to join a dispatcher to have any chance of earning a living especially day drivers .The planning permission thing is only a way of straightening out the present uncertainty .Look at an area like Tallagh if you want to work the Square or the Plaza or the Old Mill you got to be with a dispatcher .The same for Clondalkin The local companies capture most of the work before it hits the streets.Tech is going to force drivers to join dispatchers just like the minister wanted .All the big companies have an app all that is required is to give a cheap smart phone to hotel reception or the receptionist in any office block with your app cash or account work can be dispatched to your nearest aligned vehicle removing any need to rank on the premises.The Minister has said he favours full time drivers .By modifying the system to allow big dispatchers engage in work capture and the growth of apps both on and off street ranks will be stuffed with alligned drivers and independents will be squeezed out .So the real question drivers should be asking is .Which of the big 4 Hailo,Vinnie ,Ebbs or VIP will provide the most work for me .Who offers the best T&C and how long before this practice begins to reduce the number of taxies because the flow of work is controlled by the big 4 and ultimately how many years before the big four dispatchers join with the big renters and put fleets of cars on the road where drivers will rent per shift and the independents will just fade away .

  353. chester

    I don’t see how independent,s will fade away as you state unless of course minister Kelly makes it illegal for anyone to hail a taxi but with that said nothing would suprise me in this nanny state of ours.

  354. john m

    Chester …If work capture becomes the norm an example .The Burlo signs up with xxxx and the porter or reception hail a cab for their customer with an app the men outside on the rank wont have access to that fare as it has been captured by the dispatcher .Now multiply that by how many venues you like and the amount of available work shrinks .Drivers now have to decide if there is enough casual on street work available.The areas where such work is available will be clogged up with taxies or will it as fines are imposed for illegal ranking drivers might have to keep moving and fuel costs become a major issue .The companies that control the work will control the industry .Remember the minister did say he wanted all drivers aligned to dispatchers .The end game might be full time drivers who can afford to pay will sign up and part timers will just cruise for scraps at throw out time.if you cant access the work you cant earn .

  355. bohemian boy

    john if that ever happens,that is the day i will leave the industry. ebbs, kelly, kearns ,will NEVER get my ton a week,hell would freeze over first. i would never pay one of these gangsters to tell me, as a SELF EMPLOYED MAN,what i am allowed to wear,how much i can charge, and to have the cheek to reprimand me for giving back heavy discounted work that THEY negociated the price on my behalf.the one one thing these towrags SHOULD actually be monitoring is the work going out the back door to the base controllers cronies. john this is the reason i am forever asking independents to unite to show our opposition to any notion kelly might have about forcing us to join these gangsters.

  356. bohemian boy

    in fairness to kearns,he used to come on here, but does not any more. i would love the oppertunity to ask him direct a number of questions. [1] how can you justify telling a man [who employs you] what to wear ? [2] how can you justify telling a man [who employs you] how much he can charge for a job ? [3] how a taxi driver pays you to provide a service for him,ie find work for him, thats ALL you are paid your 100 aweek for. how the hell does that give you the right to discipline him for refusing work that YOU set the price for ? [4] its known,and accepted that the people you have working in your base have,on numerous occasions given work out the back door to their cronies,why have you not taken action to prevent this ? if its the case that you are going to continue to do all of the above, and continue to impose your will on how drivers run THEIR businesses, why do you not monitor the illegal sc,m you undoubthly have working under your banner ?

  357. john m

    BB It all fits .I remember listening to Minister Kelly .He wants all drivers aligned to dispatchers .He mentioned holding areas for taxies .Some dispatchers are buying up smaller companies .Economy of size .It might not all be bad news if companies get a slice of your action then discounts will impact on their earnings .If as you say you wont pay to play that might be one less how many others will give up .If work capture is the future then double jobbers will struggle .Didnt Kelly say he was all for full time drivers ?

  358. Rat Catcher

    Fair play to ASAP. It’s good to see a drivers co-op making an impact and interesting to note that this relatively small firm can work with it’s clients to comply with the relevant regulations, a far cry from what happened with the Burlington and Cab2000.

    If you want to ask Vinny those questions why don’t you give him a ring BB?

    The answers, however, seem fairly obvious to me. The radio group needs to negotiate with client’s to secure work for drivers. That involves offering appropriate discounts and imposing qualitative standards (such as uniforms) which the drivers must observe if they wish to be associated with the radio firm. Vinny runs a tight ship with a very strong focus on customer service. Obviously that’s not going to suit all drivers but those drivers that subscribe to that ethos can do quite well out of it.

    erm, the pay per job firms give double jobbers equal access to their work. In fact one such firm was actually endorsed by TTnH, the main representative body for full-time drivers up above in Dublin. Another was endorsed by Jerry Brennan’s Alliance amid reports that the lying, cheating, scumbag secured a job for a member of his immediate family in return for said endorsement. AFAIK the Alliance still claims to represent full-time drivers despite the auxiliary income streams enjoyed by committee members.

  359. john m

    Rodent i can see the apps being developed and a more accurate map being employed this will be incorporated into a data head and rented to drivers .It will just require a driver to accept the job and the app will direct him to the pickup and then by inputting the destination the datahead will direct the driver to the destination.The cost of data head rental should eliminate part timers and double jobbers there will be a % of the fare on top of the data head rental for the dispatcher .

  360. Rat Catcher

    I assume all the apps have satnav incorporated. I know the one I put together does exactly what you describe with no need for a dedicated device.

  361. john m

    rodent when i say data head it will probably be an updated app for your smart phone .by charging a weekly fee they can say it is to discourage part timers and that like the minister they are all for full time drivers .I wouldnt rule out a nice shirt and ganzee for drivers with company logo .Come to think of it is that not what Vinny is offering .I spoke with him last week and spoke to one of his drivers on Saturday and the information he gave me was confirmed by the driver .If I was going with a radio i would contact Vinny

  362. bohemian boy

    rat the alliance are a group of committed taxi drivers who seen the need for unity. hopefully they will continue to grow,and go forward with a strong voice in support of all full time taxi drivers. these people come from all over the country,not just from dublin. our next meeting is this sunday in athlone

  363. bohemian boy

    john some time ago i sent kelly an email . in it i told him that if there is any attempt to force drivers to join with these gangsters who own these radio companies, that no matter what the cost to me,i will go to every country in the country and seek the support of independent drivers whos democratic rights he would like to infringe upon. i will do this with a view to blocking everything that moves in dublin airport, ferry port, outside the dail etc,etc, i assure i have never been so serious about anything in my life.

  364. john m

    BB your democratic right to drive a taxi is not effected .Just like dispatchers right to earn a living .Nobody is forcing you to join any dispatcher its simply an economic business decision.I can see a big carve up .One or two companies focusing on corporate and one or two on hospital work and on or two catering for night time revelers .local companies linking up with bigger operators .The minister would love the dispatchers to take control of the chaos

  365. bohemian boy

    john you say nobody is forcing me to join a dispatcher. if things pan out as you say they will, ,then kelly and his gang ARE forcing me to join a gangster. the nta have ALWAYS made rules to favour these sc,mbags above independents, now if things were to go the way you say they will, there would be no place for independents to go. i would fully expect the competition authority to exersise their duty to prevent this unfair competition. this is the very reason i believe its imperitive independents get together now to let them know we have a strong voice,and we WILL NOT take this lying down

  366. chester

    @ johnM and BB
    The word ‘Communism’ comes to mind when the people are forced do something against their will by a government body that has already forced people to take cuts in their pay, forced people to hand over ‘service’ charges, forced mass emigration of it’s young people (the life blood of all countries) but the thing is, as we all know communism doesn’t work. I have always said it that the taxi industry is the negotiation tool in any meetings of government with unions that stand up for it’s members because it is now used to put fear into them that makes them lose all power, gov rep ‘well you seen what we have done to the taxi industry’ now what was it you wanted to say.

  367. Frank

    “It’s an offence to ply for hire anywhere other than an appointed taxi stand” at what point do the cretins in the TRD ,under the NTA banner ,on behalf of the Department of Transport and Tourism, do they not get, that the ranks/drivers inside the hotels, most of which are NAMA’d i.e under state control, are plying illegally?

  368. john m

    Frank have you being following this tread .Nobody is certain if the road traffic act is applicable on private property .I say its not so standing for hire on private property is allowed .Somebody said after the Burlo protest that you need planning permission to put a rank on private property .The Road Traffic act says that councils can make different rules for different venues .So if you allow cars onto your premises to pick up fares and dont bother asking anybody for permission then it is not a rank its just a car park and if its on private property then the owner can decide who he lets in.If you know Clondalkin or Tallagh then you will know that Liffey Valley,the Penny Hill,The Mill ,The Fitzgerald Hotel,Joels ,The Red Cow .The Square ,The Plaza Hotel,The Old Mill all have taxi companies trading from their carparks and the taxiwhatsit have no power to stop them .

  369. john m

    Frank@BB read this very carefuly it is taken from the road traffic act .

    (8) Where a local authority (‘the authority’) proposes to make bye-laws under
    this section in relation to a public road (within the meaning of the Roads Act,
    1993) responsibility for the maintenance of which lies on a road authority (not
    being the local authority), the authority shall consult with that other authority
    before making the bye-laws.

    Note PUBLIC ROAD a pub carpark is not a public road so does not require any by law approvals.

  370. john m

    if you have the time read this .. .I still cannot find out who told who that the cars parked in the Burlo needed planning permission and who told who that if the Burlo was to apply for permission they would be refused.If permission was needed there why are they allowed in other venues .The minister says he wants rural hacks to be allowed to stand off road there is no provision in the act to limit off street ranking to rural hacks the act states road service vehicles .Hacks.Rural hacks ,Taxies .I dont think there will be a club or pub or hotel without a designated taxi company standing cars after this bill is passed.

  371. bohemian boy

    john again ill say it. the burlo was picketed simply because there was a rank right outside and this was really putting it up to the lads on that rag and bull spring to mind. as far as the road traffic act is concerned,it really does not matter if they are permitted by law ,or not to stand in hotel car parks, the fact is it contravenes NTA rules about where a taxi may ply for hire,and that alone should be enough to get them out.but because of the nta favouritisim towards these radio companys,fullerton are slow to act

  372. bohemian boy

    dublin city council draft
    page 5 section 12 . a driver of a street service vehicle shall not stand the street service vehicle for hire otherwise then at an appointed stand and in accordance with these bye laws.

  373. john m

    BB its simple .It is or it is not allowed .The rank outside has nothing to do with it .There is a rank outside Jurys and there is a rank on Simminscourt outside Bewleys.The Road traffic act Does Matter it is the law of the land .The NTA or Taxiwhatsit have no authority on private property .If you are correct then why are Clondalkin and Tallagh drivers being excluded from venues and why have the reps ,the minister ,or the NTA or the taxiwhatsit allowed this to continue ?These places are not public roads the taxiwhatsit or others have no remit.

  374. sclass

    Be a subcriber to TTNH for as little as 58cents a week .
    And get access to all correspondence concerning the Burlington and the Dublin city council who informed the Burlington hotel they cannot have a private rank on their grounds without planning permission of which it was unlikely would be granted because of the existing rank outside that is maintained by DCC.

  375. bohemian boy

    john i suspect the reason drivers are being excluded from the places you mention is more to do with fear,and intimidation from the thugs who believe they have a right to rank there,rather then anything else.

  376. john m

    If There is A clear deceleration by DCC that the burlo needs planning permission then why did TTna H not seek an injunction against other venues to halt the practice of allowing taxies stand on their premises ?jurys +Bewleys spring to mind both in DCC area.?

  377. bohemian boy

    the official title of this is, the dublin city council appointed stands [street service vehicles] bye laws 2011 read it. im not sure the road traffic act even comes into play here at all. this appears to be a breach of other laws,and not the road traffic act. dcc are responsible for the provision of taxi ranks right ? this is clearly defined on page 5 section 12 of the document i have posted from where they say a vehicle may not stand for hire otherwise then an appointed stand. that coupled with the fact that it also contravenes nta rules should certainly be grounds for their removal

  378. Rat Catcher

    # sclasson 28 Aug 2013 at 8:38 am

    Be a subcriber to TTNH for as little as 58cents a week .
    And get access to all correspondence concerning the Burlington and the Dublin city council who informed the Burlington hotel they cannot have a private rank on their grounds without planning permission of which it was unlikely would be granted because of the existing rank outside that is maintained by DCC.

    That’s the best advice anyone can give you erm. You have an unenviable track record of getting things arse about face whenever you research anything to do with the taxi trade… do yourself a favour, talk to the men that know what they are doing.

  379. john m

    This is simple .You do or you do not need planning .If as everybody believes based on a letter from DCC then the Unions ,reps are about as useful as tits on a bullock .Why did they not stop the practice in Jurys and Bewleys?Why did they not challenge South Dublin CC .I dont believe that you ever needed planning permission and after the taxi bill is passed you wont need anything .Let me give you an example .The Burlo get an offer from xxxx cabs for 10 spaces and they apply to the council and get planning .Next year xxxx cabs reduce their offer to the Burlo and no other offer is made .Now the burlo are stuck with 10 car parking spaces zoned as a taxi rank if they use them for customer parking then the customers can be fined for parking on a taxi rank .So going back to my original point .The practice of allowing dispatchers to rank alligned cars on clubs ,pubs and hotels will become the norm after the taxi bill is passed .As the Minister says he wants more off street ranking and he is aware that no business owner is going to apply for planning permission and reduce his car parking spaces for taxi ranking and allow himself be held hostage by taxi dispatchers as changing back planning permission zoned taxi ranks would require another planning application and then the taxi dispatchers would claim custom and practice and object to the planning application and the property owner might lose out on valuable parking space.The practice is widespread all that is needed to allow it is a statement from the Minister that he wants off street ranking .The clubs ,pubs and hotel owners can then exploit the commercial value if any.

  380. john m

    the official title of this is, the dublin city council appointed stands [street service vehicles] bye laws 2011 read it. im not sure the road traffic act even comes into play here at all. this appears to be a breach of other laws,and not the road traffic act. dcc are responsible for the provision of taxi ranks right ? this is clearly defined on page 5 section 12 of the document i have posted from where they say a vehicle may not stand for hire otherwise then an appointed stand. that coupled with the fact that it also contravenes nta rules should certainly be grounds for their removal

    DCC have no remit on private property only on a public road as defined in the 1993 act .

  381. Rat Catcher

    Chester, I don’t know how you have the audacity to suggest that communism doesn’t work. Capitalist policies are responsible not only for the mess the taxi trade in Ireland is in but for the global economic meltdown. In fact it’s capitalist laissez faire policies that allow discounting. It’s capitalist laissez faire policies that allowed any unemployable waster with a ton to invest to come into the trade. It’s capitalist laissez faire policies that allow commercial dispatch firms dictate to their drivers, etc..

    BB, there’s no point to your opposition to commercial dispatch firms unless you are going to offer drivers a viable alternative. You advise drivers to subscribe to unions that endorse the very firms you oppose, unions that have done nothing to aid the development of driver co-ops.

    It’s unlikely that regulation will force drivers to subscribe to commercial dispatch firms. Once that remains the case there will always be a place for independents. In fact, independents benefit from wireless/app work just as much as the drivers that chase that work. If a driver is on an app/wireless job he’s not plying or standing for hire in front of you.

  382. Rat Catcher

    Chester, I don’t know how you have the audacity to suggest that communism doesn’t work. Capitalist policies are responsible not only for the mess the taxi trade in Ireland is in but for the global economic meltdown. In fact it’s capitalist laissez faire policies that allow discounting. It’s capitalist laissez faire policies that allowed any unemployable waster with a ton to invest to come into the trade. It’s capitalist laissez faire policies that allow commercial dispatch firms dictate to their drivers, etc..

  383. Rat Catcher

    BB, there’s no point to your opposition to commercial dispatch firms unless you are going to offer drivers a viable alternative. You advise drivers to subscribe to unions that endorse the very firms you oppose, unions that have done nothing to aid the development of driver co-ops.

    It’s unlikely that regulation will force drivers to subscribe to commercial dispatch firms. Once that remains the case there will always be a place for independents. In fact, independents benefit from wireless/app work just as much as the drivers that chase that work. If a driver is on an app/wireless job he’s not plying or standing for hire in front of you.

  384. Rat Catcher

    BB, there’s no point to your opposition to commercial dispatch firms unless you are going to offer drivers a viable alternative. You advise drivers to subscribe to unions that endorse the very firms you oppose, unions that have done nothing to aid the development of driver co-ops.

  385. john m

    Rodent There is a simple reason why reps were informed that planning was needed and would be refused it was to end the protest .After the protest on the Burlo why did drivers not protest at all other venues where they were excluded ?.Here is my thought .Most dispatch companies have clients in that part of the city and use the Burlo rank as a plot .They were afraid if cab 2000 got to rank inside the Burlo then the public rank or at least the larger part of it would be closed and they would lose out .I know for a fact as a councillor informed me that they would like to close that rank as they are overwhelmed by complaints from the residents of the apartments about noise from cars shuffling on the rank and drivers talking at all hours of the morning .Drivers littering trowing butts and bottles into the complex and pissing in the gateway .The reason that there was no further protests is simple dispatchers are in control .The reason behind all the support by reps for the Burlo and not for any other off street protests is obvious a lot of their members plot up there .There wouldnt be a dozen jobs some days out of the burlo.The Dispatchers feared losing the on street rank that is the reason there was support for the Independents on the Burlo .There was no treat to the Simmions court or Juries ranks by allowing a few cars inside the gate so the reps went back to their dens even though the had a document that professed that on site ranking was not allowed.

  386. john m

    Rodent A good app give a cheap fone to the porter in the Burlo and give him a euro a job for every job he gets you .What then are the drivers out on the street going to do .Oh yeh after they answer the call from the app.Work capture is the future you are going to have to do what the minister wants and join a dispatcher .The dispatchers will have cars plotted all over the carparks to guarentee a prompt service .

  387. Rat Catcher

    You’re embarrassing yourself now erm. TTnH have all the relevant paperwork. One of their members has suggested that you can have access to it if you join. The management of the Burlington were directed to the relevant regulations. They obviously examined the same prior to closing the facility under dispute.

  388. john m

    Still dosent answer the question .If the reps had a document purporting to outlaw the practice of off street ranking why did they not serve a writ on Fullerton to uphold the law and remove all off street rankers .Would of made a great PR coup the taxiwhatsit enforcers being served for not doing their duty .I wonder is it to late now?

  389. john m

    You’re embarrassing yourself now erm. TTnH have all the relevant paperwork. One of their members has suggested that you can have access to it if you join. The management of the Burlington were directed to the relevant regulations. They obviously examined the same prior to closing the facility under dispute.

    I wonder were they directed to a possible interpretation of the rule .I notice that there is a negative interpretation included in the statement in relation to planning . it was unlikely would be granted because of the existing rank outside that is maintained by DCC.UNLIKELY suggests that it would be likely to be granted if good grounds could be offered .A petition by the residents for the rank to be moved from the street into the burlo would be reasonably good grounds and would undoubtedly enjoy the support of local councillors and their prospective parties .Still irks a little reps hold a document that states that it is illegal to rank off street but refuse to support their members rights and stamp out the practice .

  390. Rat Catcher

    TTnH are working on that. BB is working on that. You can see Edie “chocolate fireguard” Fullerton’s response to BB in this thread. He doesn’t have the resources to enforce the rules. He does his best with the resources he has. As you can see from an earlier response published by BB Eddie tries to maximise the effectiveness of his small team by focusing their efforts on those areas that warrant greatest priority such as the cesspit that is Dublin Airport and informal ranks that are formed in close proximity to official stands.

    The policy makers put the cart before the horse as far as the TfI Driver Check clever phone application is concerned. The app was released long before additional enforcement officers have been made available to Eddie. The application generates significant volumes of complaints, all of which must be investigated by teams of two enforcement officers. Obviously this serves to eliminate many hitherto routine enforcement operations.

  391. Rat Catcher

    No, once they are directed to the regulation they are free to interpret/challenge it as they see fit. The whole point that you continue to miss is that it’s being dealt with by men who know what they are doing. Your interference is neither beneficial nor required.

  392. Rat Catcher

    erm, the point that you continue to miss is that it’s being dealt with by men who know what they are doing. Your interference is neither beneficial nor required.

  393. john m

    Here is a story for you just to show how well the enforcers are on top of things .Big Dommos mate took a massive heart attack he actually was dead for a few minutes his poor missus is still very shaken by it .Anyhoo He hasent worked for about 8 months .Last week there is a shocking thump on the door .She opens it and two big lads ask for her hubby .He crawls out from his armchair in front of the two bar electric fire only one was on and goes to the front door .Are you the owner of that taxi parked in the forecourt they asked.Your licence is out of date .He explained about his medical condition but they forced him down 8 flights of stairs to remove the daisies .Now if they can find two yellow daisies on a car behind the pramsheads I pity all the illegals.

  394. Rat Catcher

    My point exactly. Someone obviously reported Mr. Dommo’s friend via the clever phone application or one of it’s derivatives necessitating the deployment of two enforcement officers, officers that would otherwise been available to Mr. Fullerton to police other illegal activity within the trade.

    I doubt very much that they employed any force. You or the driver, are most likely employing a little poetic licence there. It is more likely that they asked him to remove the offending stickers at his convenience.

    It defies belief that the app was launched prior to the recruitment of additional enforcement officers. But then it defies belief that WATs are being forced off the road prior to publication of the new new new new WAT standard, not to be confused with the new new new WAT standard, the new new WAT standard, the new WAT standard or the original WAT standard. In fact implementation of most reforms within the trade leaves a lot to be desired. It is clear that Mr. Creegan is an incompetent Oaf yet he remains with a job for life.

  395. bohemian boy

    as i have already said in an earlier post, i have written to many people including esther hickey dcc [on holidays] fullerton [out of office for another few days] gerry murphy nta , hugh creegen nta, richard bruton td, alan shatter asking him to instruct the gardai to do their job and remove these law breakers,tim finn irish hotels federation, the irish,and european competition authorities, etc etc seeking clarification on the legality of whats going on. at the moment the only ones to acknowledge were the irish competition authority who are currently investigating. i will keep you informed of any other responses i receive,till then i respectfully request we put the subject to bed, till we know for defo what the position is

  396. Frank

    BB, Try NAMA too, as they’re running the hotel AFAIK on behalf of Irish taxpayers.

    @johnm, “anywhere other than an appointed taxi stand” covers private property, the fine doesn’t need to applied to the car ,just sent in the post.

  397. ger

    All this carry on about ranks at hotels. Zzzzzzzzzzz, meanwhile the rats are getting in the back door. And these rats are going to cause a lot more trouble than a few poxy hotel fares. lads the burlo is about the WORST rank in the city. its slow, very slow, most of the fares are going into town, 7 or 8 euro . dont take ur eye off the ball lads. meanwhile in a country far far away a man parks up his donkey in his paddie field for the last time before his long trip to treasure island to marry the girl of his dreams (after he pays her 5grand of course) . And then what happens? well lads, go figure. i can tell you one thing for sure, they wont give a fook about stupid fooking fares outta of the burlo.

  398. ger

    Anyway walking to a rank makes as much sense as swimming across the irish sea to get to liverpool. U dont do it, u fly. u have the rank in ur hand, its called hailo or cabapp or whatever. why go to a rank? Get the taxi to come to you.

  399. john m

    Ger thats the point .{Anyway walking to a rank makes as much sense as swimming across the irish sea to get to liverpool. U dont do it, u fly. u have the rank in ur hand, its called hailo or cabapp or whatever. why go to a rank? Get the taxi to come to you} .Any change that allows off street ranking will lead to work capture That will reduce your ability to access this work and force you to subscribe to one of the dispatchers .At the moment the available work is common property .If off street ranking and work capture is the new norm then you will have to pay a dispatcher to access that which is free to you now .You are also repeating my point about the Burlo there is very little work out of it .The prize is to make sure the council dont close the rank and it is lost to dispatchers to plot their drivers .

  400. bohemian boy

    i often wonder why the long established rep bodies like the fed, the ntdu,[when it existed] the nphta ,etc etc never embarked on the setting up of a pension fund for their members who retired to give them some sort of an income

  401. Rat Catcher

    Before Harney, Ahern and Molloy opened the trade to every unemployable waster with a ton to invest the plate was the pension. It would be unwise for unions to dabble in the area of pension funds. If the fund loses money the union would be seen as responsible by it’s members. In any event, there are many options available from a wide range of financial institutions both home and abroad.

  402. john m

    Population of Tallagh and Clondalkin combined is greater than the population of Limerick .Where are the SDCC supplied ranks and can you name the location.

    Swords population is huge where are the official Fingal council ranks.

    The Minister wants tech and drivers to be aligned to dispatchers and he wants holding areas.Cars ranked up on hotel carparks with a radio meets all the criteria .

  403. bohemian boy

    john the minister is inviting trouble if he tries to infringe on the democratic rights of drivers NOT to be assocated with these gangsters you call dispatchers. they have consistently made rules that favour these towrags,so this would support your theory that he wants us all to align with these gangsters,however i will do everything in my power to prevent this from happening.i will NEVER to the day i die pay one of these bastards [who are employed by drivers],to treat me like it was them that employ me. i would starve on the side of the road first

  404. john m

    BB as long as a dispatcher can park his fleet in the area he wishes to work then he can advertise .Hailo get their work by saturation plenty of drivers paying per job .Tallagh has always frustrated me .You cant get a living out there unless you are with a cab company .There is an interesting dimension to the app .Does the no pickup and short waiting time encourage taxi usage .?A lot of the jobs I get on Hailo are for less than a tenner .Or would those users of previously rang their local dispatch and paid the pick up .For the traditional dispatcher to survive they must capture the work before it hits the streets .Dublin City Centre will operate differently with a few public ranks in areas where they is no foot fall providing standing for dispatchers while the rest of the fleet fight for space on any good rank or circulate for fares .If you pull up and rank unofficially then the enforcers fine you .Economic necessity will force drivers into alternative work or into a dispatcher.

  405. bohemian boy

    second response as promised

    Thank you for your email to the National Asset Management Agency.

    To explain, NAMA has acquired loans and not properties. Our role is that of a lender holding security for its loans, like a bank, rather than a property owner or manager. Properties securing the loans we have acquired continue to be owned and managed by the original owners, or, in the case of enforcement, by the appointed receiver.

    If you are in a position to send us details of the hotels to which you refer we can determine if NAMA has an interest in them. If this is the case we will look into this matter further and will bring it to the attention of the parties responsible for the properties concerned.

    I hope this is of some assistance.

    Yours sincerely,

    Jenny Molumby

    Relationship Officer
    National Asset Management Agency

    Treasury Building, Grand Canal Street, Dublin 2

    T: +353 1 238 4622


    From: paul o beirne []
    Sent: 29 August 2013 08:31
    Subject: taxis

    From: paul o beirne Subject: taxis
    Message Body:
    hi my name is paul o beirne,a full time taxxi driver,and member of capital taxi association. i would like to bring to your attention an ongoing illegal practice which has developed over the past two years concerning some of the dublin based hotels under your control,and various taxi radio companies. this involves the illegal act of taxis plying for hire from the car parks of these hotels,by arrangement with the management, of the hotel. this practice was deemed to be illegal by the national transport authority compliance officers some two years ago following a dispute with the burlingdon hotel in dublin.its particularli nappropriate that a government agency such as nama, would help to facilitate such illegal act. i have now brought the matter to your attention,along with all other relivent bodies the nta, the hotels federation, the competition authority various government ministers, etc etc.i would be very interested to know if you propose to take any action to remedy this situation
    regards paul o beirne
    capital taxi association

    This mail is sent via a contact form on the National Asset Management Agency website.
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    It may be confidential or legally privileged. If you have received this message in
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  406. Rat Catcher

    My name is… is a terrible way to start written communication BB. You sign/type your name at the bottom of the correspondence. It reflects very poorly on taxi drivers in general and your rep body in particular.

    If you do a Hailo job for less than a tenner erm you are giving a discount in excess of 20%. Presumably you still have to pay Hailo 10 of the fare. Then, of course, you have your normal running costs to cover. Is it viable for drivers to work for Hailo at those rates?

    A wireless was always required to work the outskirts. Swords is well served with two radio firms, a walk in base, a council rank, a rank at the shopping centre and an array of illegal ranks. The provision of further official stands would only serve to attract more legal drivers so the current scenario suits all concerned.

  407. john m

    You pointed out the obvious Rodent .What passes for a taxi service in Fingal and South Dublin works for all concerned.The Hailo conundrum is just that a conundrum. Are Hailo generating new users or are they just taking from the traditional users .As cruising for fares costs about 10c per kilometer I feel the commission to Hailo is offset by the time and distance saved.

  408. Rat Catcher

    It’s interesting that you can afford such heavy discounts on small fares. I wonder what the hell Creegan was thinking when he tried to impose a fare increase last year. He must know nothing about the trade at all at all.

  409. john m

    BB I have a man on the inside .The fact that there was not unanimous agreement among all the unions in DB for action ,The strategy is to wait for DB to implement the cuts without agreement and then the big two will use their mandate from the members for a withdraw of their labour and a picket will be placed .It is assumed that workers who voted in favour of the deal will not pass the official picket .The next move lies with DB .

  410. chester

    Does anyone know if the new stricter rules and regulations that are due in shortly for cyclists
    will also apply to the tricycles that are plaguing the city center and if so will this mean an end to them or will it be a case that if they are forced onto the roads will we have to wait behind them as they travel from club to club with three or four passengers that are sucked into handing over a fiver each to the cyclist it seems they are making more money than the taxi drivers, I sometimes think I am living in Calcutta.

  411. Rat Catcher

    Ya mean the erm don’t ya?

    Further to the Ebbs/Intercity plate report posted earlier in this thead all the Noel Ebbs Plates are now lapsed bar 3 that have been transferred to Intercity bringing the Intercity total to a round 100. Interestingly if ya search the following 5 on the TfI crApp by driver badge number the drivers are still shown associated with the lapsed plates but if ya search the plate numbers on either the app or the online register no result is returned as ought to be the case for lapsed plates.


    Obviously correct at the time of posting, it may be the case that the drivers will be reassigned to different vehicles on the fleet and/or the plates transferred to Intercity in due course.

  412. Frank

    Any relation:
    A man appeared before a special sitting of Carlow District Court last night in connection with a major drugs haul on Thursday evening.
    Thirty seven year old Jason Ebbs with an address at Slate Row in Hackettstown, was arrested on Thursday following a garda raid.
    Crystal Meth with a value of around 90 thousand euro worth and Cannibis worth around 20 thousand euro was seized at a property in Hackettstown.
    He was charged at Carlow District Court last night under sections 3 and 15 of the Misuse of Drugs Act.
    He’ll appear before the court again on September 25th after he was remanded on bail.
    It’s believed to be one of the biggest crystal meth drug seizures made by Gardai.

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