No Named Drivers

August 31st, 2013

This article came about via a conversation I had with another driver recently regarding the door decals, I was telling him that my wife was less inclined to drive the Taxi now that it had the decals fitted, as she didn’t want there to be any likelihood of her being hailed whilst driving it, (the roof sign is always removed when she drives).
He informed me (mistakenly as it happens) that she will no longer be able to drive it once my insurance was renewed as named drivers were now prohibited on Taxi insurance policies, (this it seems is not true and named drivers are still allowed for social and domestic use).
However this got me thinking as to whether or not it would be a good thing if the rule as he had stated was applied (no named drivers on Taxi insurance)

1- It would drive home the fact that a Taxi is a Taxi and may only be used as a Taxi and driven by Taxi drivers.
2- It would remove any temptation a “named driver” may have to operate a Taxi.
3- It would force those whose partners use the Taxi for other purposes to purchase a second vehicle (I realise this would be a huge financial burden) but would inevitably be a good thing for the Taxi industry.

107 Responses to “No Named Drivers”

  1. flybyniteon 01 Sep 2013 at 11:44 pm

    Oh yes we are making so much money why not buy a nice family car for the misses ?
    Roy what planet did they drop you from ?
    It is nice to think we live in a perfect world where a taxi is a taxi is a taxi. But we don’t. We, at least many of us, cannot afford little “luxuries” like a second car because our lords and masters are foisting so many restrictions on us, of course to be paid for with OUR OWN MONEY, that we can hardly breathe.
    From time to time we hear that the authorities have finally caught up with one of the crooks who made wheelbarrows full of money by cooking the books, stealing from clients’ accounts or just borrowing zillions from the bankers (who were so greedy looking after their own bonuses that they lost the profitability of the banks they were running). Then ….. silence. Nothing happens, all a lot of wind, a lot of baloney to keep us dumbasses happy. But all the time we, the collective victims, are made to pay the bill.
    So how do you propose that we can buy another car ? After we already have been bled dry ? Whilst the people at the top who often were responsible for the disaster are still paid big salaries or pensions. They have us by the gooleys and are still squeezing.
    Where are the people like Larkin ?
    The 1913 lock-out was a different time, perhaps, but the mentality still persists. The gap between rich and poor is growing, and doing so rapidly. The young people who can leave the country. 80.000 a year ?
    They are the educated. The people of this country paid for their education, their degrees that now will benefit other countries.
    So Roy, do not spout cr.. It may all sound so well. Next you will be telling the homeless that they should pay tax on their bed in the shelter ?

  2. geron 02 Sep 2013 at 2:48 pm

    A lot of drivers on nights have no insurance at all. Thats why you have to bring ur insurance cert to the sgs now.

  3. Rat Catcheron 02 Sep 2013 at 3:10 pm

    That’s terrifying.

    What would happen if they hit someone paralysing him from the neck down? Who would pay the medical and ongoing care bills?

    When you say a lot of drivers, could you put a figure on it in percentage terms? Is it so high that the public would be best advised not to use taxis at all after a certain time in the evening? Is there anything a potential customer could do to avoid these uninsured operators?

  4. sclasson 02 Sep 2013 at 3:25 pm

    How can you prove that taxi drivers are driving around with no insurance.where did that information come from .
    Was that information reported to the garda or the NTA.
    Please Dont tell me its just taxi talk.

  5. Rat Catcheron 02 Sep 2013 at 3:34 pm

    If it’s true it is shocking. It could be the final nail in the coffin for the trade once the customers find out… and a scandal like this is sure to be covered by the mainstream media.

  6. Rat Catcheron 02 Sep 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Anyway, I only just read the opening post.

    If your wife/husband/sexual partner has her own car it is likely that her insurance will cover her to drive your taxi for social, domestic and pleasure purposes. I believe (although I have no supporting evidence) that many double jobbers use the car owned by their wife/husband/sexual partner to commute to their regular job leaving the wife/husband/sexual partner to use the taxi as a runaround. In that scenario neither needs to be named on the other policy.

  7. sclasson 02 Sep 2013 at 5:19 pm

    Sexual partner is cheaper.

  8. geron 02 Sep 2013 at 5:45 pm

    Not taxi talk. i was told by a garda. he didnt give figures. But he said there is “a lot of taxis going around dublin with no insurance at night time” some drivers sign up to direct debit, get the disc and then stop paying. other drivers are renting cars and then sub-letting them. invalid insurance. Other drivers have forged driving licences. This only comes to light when theres a crash and the insurance company digs a little deeper to avoid paying out and discovers the licence is forged. invalid insurance. all taxis have an insurance disc, they are easy to forge. if you are in a crash, always call the guards. its not just taxis going around with no insurance. 10 to15% of all private cars on the road have no insurance. FACT.

  9. sclasson 02 Sep 2013 at 6:36 pm

    Again it proves no enforcement
    Why is their not road blocks every weekend night by the garda if they are aware of this going on.
    The fact is not enough to stand up in court.

  10. Rat Catcheron 02 Sep 2013 at 6:36 pm

    Given that it seems to be an off the cuff remark let’s hope the Garda doesn’t go running to the press. There’s few enough customers relative to service providers without scaring them away.

    I’m not sure that the insurance companies are all that anxious to avoid settling claims. The problem for them is that they have to pay out anyway through the uninsured drivers fund and in doing so may not be able to attribute the claim to a particular policy or individual for future loading.

  11. chesteron 03 Sep 2013 at 2:07 am

    @ger surely you know that you do not have to bring any documents insurance or tax clearance with you to the renewal it is all done online at the time of renewing your licence, another thing I have passed through many check points just like other taxi drivers and I have yet to see any large number of taxis pulled over to the side of the road and taken off the drivers we seem to b taking our eyes of the ball the problem is not with the imaginary illegal taxi drivers but the vast over supply of taxis and the illegally plying for hire drivers that is where the problem is even while i write this there is a would be taxi drivers receiving his letter in the post with a date to sit the PSV exam.

  12. geron 03 Sep 2013 at 2:50 am

    Chester if you check with sgs, they will tell you that from the start of september you have to bring ur insurance cert with you to be passed out.

  13. geron 03 Sep 2013 at 2:57 am

    I got an email from the NTA to say that. that would indicate that there is an issue with drivers having valid insurance.

  14. chesteron 03 Sep 2013 at 6:31 am

    Well i you are right and I have no reason to believe otherwise then whoever thought up the idea that drivers did not need insurance documents while attending their SGS should be fired for incompetence and also the disbanded of SGS should take place and control of all licensing and renewals given back to the Garda this is to serious to let continue.

  15. flybyniteon 03 Sep 2013 at 6:44 am

    I have not heard about anything like this yet but I can believe that there are some drivers who slip through the mazes. Of course, LEGAL taxi drivers have to comply with a growing number of checks.
    But let’s be realistic:
    1. It is known that some people can duplicate (forge) just about everything,
    2. It is quite believable that a taxi rented to one (legal) individual driver can be passed on to others who are not,
    3. The photo ID of some legal drivers sometimes barely looks like the person behind the wheel,
    4. It is possible though perhaps not very likely that some drivers pay insurance in instalments and then just stop paying,
    5. It is more likely that some drivers are in arrears paying their monthly insurance,
    6. As long as the little stickers behind the windscreen look OK, the taxi has a 98% chance of getting waived through at a Garda check,
    7. I have only twice been vetted at the roadside where my meter was checked and some inspector of the NTA was present with the Gardai to make sure that the taxi was legal in every respect.

    So, the sum total of all the above is: Yes, I believe that there still are taxis on the road with an “iffy” insurance. How big the problem is ? How many people you meet on the street are burglars ?
    Illegal operators do not advertise the fact.
    There are no accurate statistics.
    So how large the problem is is totally unknown.

  16. chesteron 03 Sep 2013 at 7:39 am

    @Flybye and Ger
    Tourists that have come here on holiday this year are more likely to return home and inform their friends and relatives of the rip off taxi drivers, most likely by the ones that have slipped through the net and as for the gathering the only gathering they seen was in the city of Dublin – taxis gathering…every where !

  17. Rat Catcheron 03 Sep 2013 at 9:20 am

    I’d have to agree with Chester here. The so-called illegals who let their licence lapse are only dodging a couple of euros a week and, in most cases, will end up paying the restoration fee so are ultimately out of pocket. Drivers who habitually use or form illegal ranks do so to gain an edge over their fully compliant legitimate colleagues, to pick their pockets if you will.

    When an insurance policy is canceled for any reason, including non-payment of installments, the disc must be returned to the insurance company. If it’s not returned they inform the Gardai who then investigate.

    No doubt there is some fraud, no system is perfect and Irish culture lends itself to finding ways of circumventing regulation but I doubt the problem is any more severe within the trade than across all vehicles. In fact, given that a driver will get a ban and an endorsement if caught driving without insurance (save in exceptional cases) it is far less likely that someone who drives for a living would take the risk.

    Not sure what net you’re talking about Chester. Dublin Airport drivers invariably top the league for customer complaints including complaints of overcharging. Are you aware of any crechie losing his licence? I’ve never heard of any driver being caught in this net you speak of!

  18. Murphon 03 Sep 2013 at 11:01 am

    What the point of producing insurance cert if ye can cancel the direct debit after receiving it ???

  19. Rat Catcheron 03 Sep 2013 at 11:08 am

    The insurance cert was always required to renew a plate, right back to the days when then Dublin Corporation looked after licences for the whole of county Dublin.

    If ya cancel the policy and don’t return the disc the insurance company will grass you up to the Gardai.

  20. geron 03 Sep 2013 at 11:26 am

    For the last few years you did not need to bring ANY paperwork with you for the sgs. it was checked on line. Now you must bring ur insurance cert. So that tells me there is a problem with taxis not having insurance! Why the rule change all of a sudden? As for drivers getting banned, certain drivers dont live at the address they gave. I have not been stopped and TALKED to by a cop or NTA head in over 3 years. sure, i hit check points, they just glance at the discs in the window and wave me on. i work nights 99% of the time. They need to set up rolling checkpoints with the NTA,guards,social welfare, revenue, AND the GNIB. And when i say ROLLING i mean no more than 20 mins in the one place. The bush radio works at the speed of light. i have often seen taxis turn around when they see a checkpoint. The taxi industry is rotten to the core.

  21. bohemian boyon 03 Sep 2013 at 12:39 pm

    third response as promised Dear Mr O Beirne,

    I am directed by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence, Mr Alan
    Shatter, T.D., to refer to your correspondence 23 August, 2013 regarding
    the illegal parking of taxis.

    You will be aware that the enforcement of road traffic legislation is a
    matter for An Garda Síochána. In that regard, this issues raised in your
    correspondence have been brought to the attention of the Garda authorities
    for any action deemed necessary.

    I hope this is of assistance.

    Yours sincerely,

    Chris Quattrociocchi
    Private Secretary
    to the Minister for Justice & Equality

    Is le haghaidh an duine nó an eintitis ar a bhfuil sí dírithe, agus le haghaidh an duine nó an eintitis sin amháin, a bheartaítear an fhaisnéis a tarchuireadh agus féadfaidh sé go bhfuil ábhar faoi rún agus/nó faoi phribhléid inti. Toirmisctear aon athbhreithniú, atarchur nó leathadh a dhéanamh ar an bhfaisnéis seo, aon úsáid eile a bhaint aisti nó aon ghníomh a dhéanamh ar a hiontaoibh, ag daoine nó ag eintitis seachas an faighteoir beartaithe. Má fuair tú é seo trí dhearmad, téigh i dteagmháil leis an seoltóir, le do thoil, agus scrios an t-ábhar as aon ríomhaire. Is é beartas na Roinne Dlí agus Cirt agus Comhionannais, na nOifígí agus na nGníomhaireachtaí a úsáideann seirbhísí TF na Roinne seoladh ábhair cholúil a dhícheadú.
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  22. Rat Catcheron 03 Sep 2013 at 12:43 pm

    That was for a year, or two at the most. It’s a strange conclusion to jump to but I guess it supports the assertions of the Garda with whom you discussed the matter. I reckon it’s easier for the forgers to produce a hard copy than it would be to manipulate insurance company records. Anyway, if it stays under wraps, no harm done. If it gets out it’s another blow for drivers.

    Rolling checkpoints:
    NTA – to enforce a licence that costs a couple of bucks a week – why bother?
    Gardai – to detect forged discs, etc – why not but they’d probably detect more among private motorists.
    Social Welfare – Minister Kelly stated that up to 50% of taxi drivers legitimately claim welfare. MABS published a brochure (endorsed by a lot of the rep bodies aligned to Jerry Brennan’s Alliance) advertising the trade as a source of pocket money for welfare recipients – what’s to enforce?
    Revenue – how much income tax do you pay? I recall one ex-SIPTU TB committee member boasting that he only paid the minimum PRSI at height of the boom despite operating several successful businesses in addition to his taxi driving. We’re talking pennies – surely Revenue have bigger fish to fry?
    GNIB – what would they be looking for?

    I don’t believe the trade is rotten to the core. Sure there’s illegal ranking and such like and undoubtedly a bit of licence fee dodging but it’s not worth winding yourself up about it. Posting exaggerated, sensationalist or unsubstantiated reports on the internet can only serve to scare customers away, customers drivers rely on to make a living.

  23. geron 03 Sep 2013 at 12:46 pm

    In other words bboy, nothing is going to be done about it. the cops dont give a fiddlers about the taxi industry. they have better things to be doing. too much paper work.

  24. geron 03 Sep 2013 at 12:57 pm

    NTA to catch illegal drivers. S.W. to catch dole cheats. Revenue,to catch tax dodgers.Garda, to catch criminals. GNIB, to catch illegal immigrants. If all the above did what they get paid to do, ie their fooking job, WE might be able to take home a proper wage each week.

  25. bohemian boyon 03 Sep 2013 at 1:42 pm

    the response i received was from the minister was in relation to illegal parking of taxis in hotel grounds

  26. Rat Catcheron 03 Sep 2013 at 4:53 pm

    Illegals that dodge a couple of bucks a week in fees… why bother?

    Welfare cheats that could legitimately claim?

    What tax dodgers? Taximen don’t earn enough to pay any tax worth talking about.

    Criminals? Would they no be locked up in prison?

    An illegal immigrant would find it difficult to get a licence.

    None of that would put any more money in drivers’ pockets. Clamping down on the illegals that rank wherever they feel like it or the illegals that customarily rob the customers might level the playing field a bit but the real problem, as Chester notes, is that there are too many taxis driven by fully licensed legitimate (if not fully compliant) operators.

    The fixation on illegal this and illegal that and illegal the other is precisely what enabled Minister Kelly tiptoe around the issue of oversupply. Furthermore, it only serves to discourage customers.

  27. bohemian boyon 03 Sep 2013 at 4:54 pm

    surely now,when there is so much controversy about the excessive hours junior doctors are working,and the dangers surrounding their work,its time we full time taxi drivers also sought to have double jobbers banned from our industry on the same basis considering the obvious danger from fatigue. the doctors have overwhelmingly voted in favor of industrial action,seeking the introduction of the working time directive. if minister Kelly is,[as he claims to be] all about full time taxi drivers then its time he put his money where his mouth is and banned this double jobbing completely once and for all. considering these people work an average of 40 hours a week in their 9 to 5 positions,and possibly drive taxis for at least the same amount of time, part time, surely this puts them on a par with doctors who claim to work 80/90/ hours a week. the biggest joke of all is,one of the worst offenders of double jobbing are dublin fire brigade,and ambulance drivers.the same people who lecture you,and i about the dangers of driving while in a state of fatigue. it would be funny if it wasnt so serious

  28. Rat Catcheron 03 Sep 2013 at 5:12 pm

    Where did you get those numbers?

    Indecon 2011 reported that part-timers average c.17 hours per week with full-timers doing c.57 hours per week.

    That suggests full-timers are more likely to suffer from fatigue than part-timers.

  29. bohemian boyon 03 Sep 2013 at 5:22 pm

    not when full timers are sitting on a rank for the vast majority of that time.rat you know as well as i do that double jobbers are doing a hell of a lot more then 17 hours a week

  30. Rat Catcheron 03 Sep 2013 at 5:24 pm

    It doesn’t matter what we may deduce or know. The fact is the Minister commissioned the study that produced those figures. Maybe the rep bodies should commission a study themselves?

  31. bohemian boyon 04 Sep 2013 at 2:36 pm

    forth response as promised
    Thank you for your email and apologies for the delay in responding to you. The Irish Hotels Federation has previously communicated its position on this matter to the National Transport Authority. That position is:

    · Agreements between taxi companies and other bodies are primarily a matter to be directly addressed to those parties.

    · The taxi companies and drivers who operate these agreements should be made aware of their obligations in respect of what constitutes a taxi rank and what is not a taxi rank.

    · It is primarily the responsibility of the taxi drivers concerned, who are operating the business, to ensure they comply at all times with the law.

    · In the event of any breach of regulations, the appropriate authority is the National Transport Authority and reports should be made directly to them

    I trust this clarifies the matter for you.


    Anne Lee

    Anne Lee,

    Company Secretary,

    Irish Hotels Federation,

    13 Northbrook Road,


    Dublin 6.

    Direct Dial 01 4068265

    From: paul obeirne []
    Sent: 04 September 2013 13:51
    To: Carol Bergin

    dear mr fenn

    regarding my email communication to on 22/08/2013, in relation to the illegal parking of taxis in certain dublin hotel car parks,and the fact that this is being facilitated by some of your members,i wonder if you have any response to my query asking if you propose to take any action or not ?


    Paul o Beirne

    capital taxi association



  32. bohemian boyon 04 Sep 2013 at 2:39 pm

    i have sent an email to hugh Creegan already asking him to get fullerton to do his job and get these towrags out of the hotels who continue to steal your work

  33. bohemian boyon 04 Sep 2013 at 2:44 pm

  34. bohemian boyon 04 Sep 2013 at 2:49 pm

    Download ballsbridge-hotel-response.pdf (510.0 KB)ballsbridge-hotel-response.pdfView online
    Download as zip

    Please find enclosed attachment for consideration, any thoughts would be welcome paul.

    Alan Brennan


    Unit 2, Santry Hall Industrial Estate,
    Dublin 9.

    Telephone: 085 2157 999

    This e-mail message is confidential and for use by the intended recipient only. If the message is received by anyone other than the intended recipient, please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer. Internet e-mails are not necessarily secure. TTnH do not accept responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. Whilst all reasonable care has been taken to avoid the transmission of viruses, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message and any attachments will not adversely affect its systems or data. No responsibility is accepted by any member of TTnH in this regard and the recipient should carry out such virus and other checks as it considers appropriate.
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  35. bohemian boyon 04 Sep 2013 at 2:58 pm

    gentlemen could one of you please explain how i post an attachment to an email on here.its a reply received in relation to the ballsbridge hotel,and the illegal parking there.i did not receive this reply myself,but i have been asked to post it here but i dont know how to do it .its very interesting though

  36. john mon 04 Sep 2013 at 4:29 pm

    BB this one line says it all…… The taxi companies and drivers who operate these agreements should be made aware of their obligations in respect of what constitutes a taxi rank and what is not a taxi rank.

  37. flybyniteon 05 Sep 2013 at 12:18 am

    Long time ago I tried to get clarification about all this. What is a taxi rank and where can taxis rank and how legal is a private agreement. At the time I was bluntly told by management of a hotel that they can make agreements with any selected taxi companies they like and can exclude any other taxi operator from their forecourt. This followed a complaint I made to the management of a certain Dublin hotel where I was prevented by their security staff from picking up a pre-arranged booking. At the time I was told that the car park and area in front of the reception was private. I was intimidated by two very big bouncers who forced me to leave the front of the hotel, I had to wait for my fare at the official rank outside the gate. Needless to say this did not go down well with the other taxis at this rank. The hotel concerned has since gone into receivership and went into NAMA. So it no longer serves any purpose to name it. I only mention this to illustrate how murky the situation is. And not much seems to have changed. At least not for the better.

  38. bohemian boyon 05 Sep 2013 at 7:08 am

    fly i must admit a lot of my bitterness regarding this situation involves a similar incident where a mate of mine was threatened by two of KELLYS thugs,NOT the bouncers,at clontarf castle he was told to sling his hook when an intending passenger approached him,he was verbally threatened by these sc,mbags.

  39. bohemian boyon 05 Sep 2013 at 7:29 am

  40. bohemian boyon 05 Sep 2013 at 7:32 am

    still cannot send the response received,i dont know how to sent an attachment

  41. bohemian boyon 05 Sep 2013 at 7:32 am

    roy where are you when i need you

  42. bohemian boyon 05 Sep 2013 at 7:33 am

    im fukking around with me computer, and i might as well be looking into a ditch

  43. john mon 05 Sep 2013 at 8:43 am

    Flyby what you say is correct .It has always been the position that a hotel or club can enter into a private arrange ment with a service provider to provide a service .So there is nothing stopping a hotel allowing that provider exclusive rights to enter their premises to pick up their client .There is an issue with preventing a taxi that has been called other than one provided by the preferred entering the premises to pick up.All of this stems from the Burlo protest .There are plenty of hotels and venues with exclusive deals and they have gone unchallenged by your industry reps .The Burlo was different .here is why .All of the dispatch companies use the burlo rank as a plot for their cars .Some days there wouldnt be twenty walk out jobs from the Burlo it is more valuable as a parking space for dispatch drivers .Now when cab 2000 tried to rank up inside like they and others do in other venues drivers protested and got wide support and you can see why .The big dispatchers were afraid that if there was a rank inside the burlo then the council who have been asked on numerous occasions to close the feeder rank to the Burlo by residents of the apartments who are tired of drivers talking at all hours and flicking litter into the grounds of the apartments and pissing in the gateway and revving engines as they shuffle along the rank.The information about the residents complaint was given to me by a city councillor it was him who gave me advice to ask if there was any planning permission for the rank in the Burlo as there was a requirement under the road traffic act but he added that he thought that the RTA only applied to public streets and that in his 20 years as a city councillor he couldn’t remember any body ever applying for permission to put a rank on private property unless it was part of a planning application for an overall development .I passed on the information about planning to people who were leading the protest and they used it as they saw fit .The Burlo management decided to remove the internal rank because of bad publicity which was the result of a unified campaign by drivers . You might ask why the protest did not move to Jurys which has something similar .The reason there was no chance of the on street rank being closed so the dispatchers and the reps did not care .So what is the issue .There is no rule against private carparking for taxies .These carparks are not ranks they are holding areas .If you read minister kellys proposals he is in favor of holding areas.Note the reply that BB got from the hotels fed ” The taxi companies and drivers who operate these agreements should be made aware of their obligations in respect of what constitutes a taxi rank and what is not a taxi rank.

  44. Royon 05 Sep 2013 at 9:00 am

    A hotel cannot prevent a client using their preferred taxi service, so the word exclusivity is incorrect.
    Also CAB2000 drivers have been told by D4 hotels to stop parking in the car park there.

  45. john mon 05 Sep 2013 at 9:04 am

    Now the taxiwhatsit /NTA/NRA Troica say in their integrated report “The Authority will support the provision of taxi ranks at appropriate locations within Dublin City
    and other centres of activity within the GDA.Well I have news for them .It is not in your remit all you can do is recommend to the city council or local council an area as they are the relevant authority .So if you want any say in the provision of ranks and any say in traffic restrictions or road changes you need to get somebody elected and on to the transport committee of your local council.

  46. Rat Catcheron 05 Sep 2013 at 9:08 am

    BB, I assume you are trying to post the content of a pdf attachment that cannot be copied and pasted. If this is correct you could download Adolix Split and Merge, split the document and you will then be able to copy and paste from the output document. You may email the attachment to me at if you want and I’ll send you back the content in plain text that you can then post by copying and pasting… or I’m sure Roy will do similar if you send it to him. There is no way to directly add an attachment to a post on this Blog.

    erm, you couldn’t be wronger! The Burlington and Cab200 initially dug their heels in believing that they were legally entitled to operate the exclusive rank. Anthony Kelly undertook to discharge any fines issued to his drivers and is rumoured to have had a full and frank discussion with NTA regarding one or more such fines. They subsequently backed down after taking counsel. I respectfully suggest that you contact TTnH on the matter.

  47. john mon 05 Sep 2013 at 9:12 am

    Na Rodent ill stick with my or the correct version of events and if anybody can prove different let them .

  48. Rat Catcheron 05 Sep 2013 at 9:24 am

    erm, while taxi drivers traditionally have a very poor voting record it is likely that some will vote at the local elections. Those that live in DCCs administrative area will therefore contribute to getting several candidates elected.

    If you want to influence the Transport Committee on any closely contested issue, lobbying is the way to go. Councillors don’t get much direct remuneration for their public service so it doesn’t take much in terms of donations to tip the balance.

    I don’t know if you’re suggesting that a taximan could get elected to the Council and serve on the Transport Committee but if you are that is highly unlikely. If he is a serving taximan double jobbing as a Councillor his vested interest would preclude participation on that committee. The trade would be better served by employing a professional in the field of lobbying.

  49. Rat Catcheron 05 Sep 2013 at 9:31 am

    # john mon 05 Sep 2013 at 9:12 am

    Na Rodent ill stick with my or the correct version of events and if anybody can prove different let them .

    You believe that they are legally entitled to operate exclusive ranks without planning permission. While that is incorrect as far as DCCs administrative area is concerned, it isn’t a bad thing that you believe that. In fact that belief should save the trade from any potential damage to the efforts being made by those that understand the situation that could otherwise arise from interference on your part.

  50. john mon 05 Sep 2013 at 9:33 am

    The collective members of the council select committee members .There would be nothing barring a taxi driver from serving on the transport committee just like there would be nothing stopping a school teacher from serving on the education committee or a poet serving on the arts committee.I do understand that most taxi drivers are to busy trying to earn a living to bother loading up their car with family members and casting a ballot even if it was to their benefit to do so .

  51. john mon 05 Sep 2013 at 9:36 am

    Rodent look at the evidence .Tallagh and Clondalkin is full of special arrangements .You need to legally define taxi rank and there in lies the answer .

  52. john mon 05 Sep 2013 at 9:37 am

    collectively members of the council select committee members .There would be nothing barring a taxi driver from serving on the transport committee just like there would be nothing stopping a school teacher from serving on the education committee or a poet serving on the arts committee.I do understand that most taxi drivers are to busy trying to earn a living to bother loading up their car with family members and casting a ballot even if it was to their benefit to do so .

  53. Rat Catcheron 05 Sep 2013 at 9:41 am

    Are Tallaght and Clondalkin in DCCs administrative area?

    If you want the facts consult TTnH but if you’re happy to believe that you know it all that’s OK, leave the men that know what they are doing to get on with it.

  54. john mon 05 Sep 2013 at 10:07 am

    Again Rodent you deliberate misinterprit my posy I say you should try to get people elected I never limited my suggestion to DCC .There are taxi drivers in other Dublin council areas .And once again I refer you to the reply from the hotels fed . ” The taxi companies and drivers who operate these agreements should be made aware of their obligations in respect of what constitutes a taxi rank and what is not a taxi rank..So what is the legal definition of as taxi rank ?.

  55. bohemian boyon 05 Sep 2013 at 11:19 am

    rat i just sent that to you i think will you just post the actual letter from ballsbridge hotel to Alan Brennen,and nothing else if you dont mind please thanks

  56. Rat Catcheron 05 Sep 2013 at 11:42 am

    Following is the text from the letter. It’s reconstructed from a scan so if there’s typos that’s the reason:

    Ballsbridge Hotel
    Pembroke Road, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4
    Tel: +353 1 637 9300, Facsimile: +353 1 667 4381
    14 August 2013

    Many thanks for your letter of the 9 of August outlining your member’s concerns.

    I do acknowledge that we have issues with taxis driving in from the street without pre-bookings but I can assure you that my staff are vigilant and, wherever possible, clear the taxis away. This has become an increasing (and infuriating) issue of late and I have taken numbers and personally called owners of taxi companies to distribute cautions to their drivers.

    I completely understand the frustrations of your members Alan and do not want to cause upset. If you believe there are any other measures I can take here I would be delighted to take your advice on board.

    Please also be advised that we do not have a set contract in place with any taxi company so I am unsure where the issue of not being able to avail of return business lies.

    If you wish to discuss further Alan or if I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Kindest Regards,

    Des McCann
    General Manager
    Ballsbridge Hotel

    Tulane Business Management Ltd. | Directors P. McCann, S. McKeon, S. McNally | Registered in Ireland No. 503517

  57. john mon 05 Sep 2013 at 12:08 pm

    Only says he dosent have a deal with a provider and dosent want taxies taking up space in his compound .Nothing about said practice being illegal or contacting the taxiwhatsit to move them on .

  58. bohemian boyon 05 Sep 2013 at 12:19 pm

    did he not say he has taken numbers and reported to their masters ? not that it will do any good. also so far in relation to all the emails i have sent about this illegal hotel parking i have received 4 replys.i have posted these replys as they have come in,and all appear to say its down to fullerton and his gang to act.

  59. bohemian boyon 05 Sep 2013 at 12:21 pm

    Stephen thank you for your assistance in posting that

  60. john mon 05 Sep 2013 at 12:28 pm

    BB this one line says it all…… The taxi companies and drivers who operate these agreements should be made aware of their obligations in respect of what constitutes a taxi rank and what is not a taxi rank.
    so Agreements are allowed but what is a rank and what is a holding area .before the taxi review 2012 the term taxi holding area was never heard .It is this new area that will allow companies to make their own arrangements with clubs ,pubs and others . if you read the road traffic act there is no law covering holding areas only taxi ranks .

  61. bohemian boyon 05 Sep 2013 at 12:34 pm

    john i am currently awaiting a response from Esther Hickey from dublin city council to that very question. she is away on holidays at present,but will clarify on her return

  62. bohemian boyon 05 Sep 2013 at 12:42 pm

    i remember a long time ago when i was up fullertons hole about this same subject.he finally said in an email to me,[and unfortunately] i cannot find it, that the people responsible for a breach of the rules in this regard are the drivers themselves,and not the radio companies. he stated in that reply,that because a driver is aligned to a radio company,that this does not make the radio company responsible for that driver illegally parking in a hotel car reply then i asked why he did not go to the hotel car parks and issue fines for breach of the rules,and i also asked the competition authority to declare this to be unfair reply from either

  63. Rat Catcheron 05 Sep 2013 at 12:45 pm

    No bodder BB, any time.

    What is perhaps most significant is the fact that TTnH, on behalf of it’s members and to the benefit of all (full-time) taxi drivers, has gained the respect of a very significant member of the Hotel industry. Well done to Alan and all concerned.

  64. Rat Catcheron 05 Sep 2013 at 12:46 pm

    No bodder BB, any time.

  65. Rat Catcheron 05 Sep 2013 at 12:47 pm

    What is perhaps most significant is the fact that TTnH, on behalf of it’s members and to the benefit of all (full-time) taxi drivers, has gained the respect of a very significant member of the Hotel industry. Well done to Alan and all concerned.

  66. Rat Catcheron 05 Sep 2013 at 12:50 pm

    I keep getting Your comment is awaiting moderation. I don’t have the patience to wait, there’s nothing in the comment I was trying to post that could possible need moderation.

    I was merely congratulating TTnH on a very positive response from Ballsbridge Hotels.

  67. Rat Catcheron 05 Sep 2013 at 12:58 pm

    It is the driver that is responsible for his own actions but, as noted above, Anthony Kelly did offer his drivers indemnity in respect of following his instructions at the Burlington until he and the Burlington decided to terminate the facility. Obviously the introduction of penalty points for PSV offences will impact on the extent to which a multi-millionaire company boss will be able to do that going forward.

    The complaints should probably be addressed to NTA but they may say that an enforcer would need to witness the breach to issue a fixed penalty notice. I can’t see that the dispatch firms would act on such complaints unless they had a contract with the Hotel.

  68. bohemian boyon 05 Sep 2013 at 2:35 pm

    are you saying that you believe penalty points will be issued to these drivers if,and when,it is proved that it is illegal to ply for hire from the car parks of hotels ?

  69. Paulon 06 Sep 2013 at 4:37 am

    So what if every establishment has its own rank or holding area .Drivers will just have to put up with it.How can your reps or unions complain.They agreed to it in Dublin Airport.If its alright to block drivers from work in Dublin Airport then why is it not alright to block drivers from other work.

  70. bohemian boyon 06 Sep 2013 at 8:47 am

    paul the complaint is, that what these radio company drivers are doing is possibly illegal because it contravenes the national transport authority rules in relation to where a taxi may ply for hire,and there is a possibility it also contravenes dublin city council rules under the road traffic act

  71. bohemian boyon 06 Sep 2013 at 9:11 am

    i see there is talk that self employed may be allowed to claim the dole, if true its about bloody time it might also encourage some to leave the industry

  72. sclasson 06 Sep 2013 at 9:14 am

    Interesting was Aer Rianta exempt from planning permission for the kesh.

  73. Rat Catcheron 06 Sep 2013 at 9:29 am

    I doubt it would apply in retrospect BB. The main objective would be to increase PRSI contributions.

  74. Rat Catcheron 06 Sep 2013 at 9:32 am

    Missed the penalty points comment BB. It is proposed to introduce a scheme of penalty points for PSV driving licences. Whether points are issued for this, or any other, offence in pratice remains to be seen.

  75. john mon 06 Sep 2013 at 9:33 am

    The Airport is exempt from certain planning applications it is self regulating .So was the Dublin Port they could grant planning to them self or borrow hundreds of millions to form partnerships like the one that bought the old glass bottle site for 400 million .

  76. john mon 06 Sep 2013 at 9:35 am

    BB this is a softener for an increase in PRSI but all you will get is disability benefit if you have a long-term illness .If your business fails you can apply for means tested benefit which has a success rate of around 80% for applicants..The issue that they are trying to profit from is .If you are self employed and get so ill that you cannot work you wont qualify for unemployment benefits as you are not fit for work.This means if you have no savings you are potless,.PRSI from the self employed is an easy you are employed so you have an income .

  77. bohemian boyon 06 Sep 2013 at 9:52 am

    sure they actually DOUBLED the prsi contrabution at the last budget, surely they cannot increase it again.

  78. john mon 06 Sep 2013 at 9:58 am

    Self employed people on our income pay the minimum of about 10 yoyo a week and would have little if any tax liability .They think we can withstand a little more pain .They are after the big earners but they will trample over the low paid to get to them.

  79. bohemian boyon 06 Sep 2013 at 1:36 pm

    here is the fifth response as promised
    Dear Mr O Beirne,

    Thank you for your most recent contact on the matter below. Minister Bruton’s office has also been in direct contact and we will be replying shortly to his query.

    The Authority is separately considering the relevant road traffic legislation to determine the appropriate treatment of SPSVs standing on hotel grounds as part of its wider review of current SPSV regulations. You will appreciate that any legislative provisions (and consequential enforcement of same) focusing on “standing for hire” needs to be balanced against the need to allow SPSV users to book vehicles in advance, and be collected or dropped at their door step. This is not to rule out the impact of “touting” or illegal standing by SPSV operators on compliant SPSV operators, but to point to the complexities in regulating this matter.

    I am advised by the compliance unit that moving vehicles on or issuing fines has only a temporary impact. On this basis, the Authority is currently preparing guidelines to issue to hotels to increase awareness on what taxis are permitted and not permitted to do in public places such as hotel grounds. These guidelines will be written in line with final clarification of the relevant road traffic legislation. Our compliance unit will continue (as currently undertaken) to liaise with individual hotels to ensure appropriate monitoring and response to illegal operations.

    Finally, the Authority is completing a public tender process that will result in additional numbers of authorised officers in the coming months. If the Capital Taxi Association wishes to supply a list of hotels where illegal standing is potentially occurring, we can arrange for periodic patrols of these hotels as part of wider scheduling.

    I trust this addresses your most recent query.

    Kind regards
    National Transport Authority
    paul obeirne 05/09/2013
    dear Mr Murphy i sent an email to you on 22/08/2013 regarding the illegal parking,and illegal plying for hire by some radio company taxi drivers from the car parks of certain hotels in and around the
    Picture of paul obeirne
    © 2013 MicrosoftTermsPrivacy & cookiesDevelopersEnglish

  80. john mon 06 Sep 2013 at 1:42 pm

    The Authority is currently preparing guidelines to issue to hotels to increase awareness on what taxis are permitted and not permitted to do in public places such as hotel grounds. These guidelines will be written in line with final clarification of the relevant road traffic legislation..Watch this space .A hotel ground is not a public place .It is private property with public access .

  81. bohemian boyon 06 Sep 2013 at 3:28 pm

    right lads they are asking for a list of hotels. any hotels you know of will you please forward them and i will sent it on to them

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